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Thread: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

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    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    This is not the time for political ideologues and a "my way or the highway" approach. The economic health of the United States of America is at stake here, and while the US scrambles in a battle to avoid default on the debt, a battle which is uncertain, I consider whoever fiddles while our economy burns to be traitors.

    Right now, this has turned into a battle between Wall Street and the crazies who have hijacked the Republican Party. The way I see it, if Republicans want to destroy their own party, they are on the right track to do it. But destroying America's economy, because they are not getting what they want at this time, is a morally reprehensible act, which will have dire consequences. Time to be responsible. If you (and I am talking to the jihad wing of the GOP here) want to act like babies and brats, you should do it on your own dime, and not that of your country. Just agree to raise the debt limit, and then feel free to engage in your ideological war later, during the 2012 election campaign. This is neither the time nor the place for it.

    Article is here.
    The GOP will gladly raise the debt ceiling (discreetly). If it doesn't, it won't be able to provide more money for its welfare bums in the oil and offense industries.

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    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    There is no concern in bond markets because they know congress will raise it. Anything else would be complete and utter stupidity.
    I agree that it will happen. It is the responsibility of both parties to make it happen.

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    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    There is nothing to come to the table over. If we got rid of every single program that the US has, we would still need to raise the debt ceiling to pay for what we already borrowed. We owe this money. We need to pay it. While I would probably agree that some things need to be cut, this is neither the time nor place to argue it. We OWE for what we ALREADY borrowed.

    Here is an analogy to what the GOP is attempting to shovel at the rest of us. The analogy is me. A while back, my credit card companies raised the interest rate on my cards, and made that rate retroactive to past purchases. IMHO, that was wrong. So I can demand that the credit card companies eliminate the increase for past purchases, or I will default on the debt I already legally owe. If I do that, then I am in a crapload of financial trouble. Same thing here. The US owes this money, and is responsible for paying it, no matter what transpires in the way of cost reduction in the future. What Republicans demand now is either change the way we do future expenditures, WITHOUT ANY DEBATE WHATSOEVER, or they are going to set our economy on fire, economic arson, so to speak. This speaks directly to the dishonesty of the demands that the GOP are making at this time. Like I said, now is not the time to threaten to crash and burn the economy. And like I said, if the GOP wants to act like babies and brats, let them do it on their own damn dime, not that of our country.
    Both your analogy and line of thinking are flawed. Should the debt ceiling not be raised, the federal government will still be able to meet its current P&I payments on its debt. To suggest otherwise is economic dishonesty of the grandest scale. So please spare me any of this foolishness, as you obviously are not very fluent on the relationship between governmental outlays and receipts. So yes, we still we be able to pay for what we borrowed, we just will not be able to borrow any more. With all due respect, that is a very beneficial to the longterm viability of this country. So unless Obama and the DEMS want to come to the table with serious spending cuts in mind, then they have no desire to address the problem in the first place. So screw them, its time this country goes on a forced economic diet. Do not raise the debt ceiling!

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    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    This is not the time for political ideologues and a "my way or the highway" approach. The economic health of the United States of America is at stake here, and while the US scrambles in a battle to avoid default on the debt, a battle which is uncertain, I consider whoever fiddles while our economy burns to be traitors.

    Right now, this has turned into a battle between Wall Street and the crazies who have hijacked the Republican Party. The way I see it, if Republicans want to destroy their own party, they are on the right track to do it. But destroying America's economy, because they are not getting what they want at this time, is a morally reprehensible act, which will have dire consequences. Time to be responsible. If you (and I am talking to the jihad wing of the GOP here) want to act like babies and brats, you should do it on your own dime, and not that of your country. Just agree to raise the debt limit, and then feel free to engage in your ideological war later, during the 2012 election campaign. This is neither the time nor the place for it.

    Article is here.
    I say enact a law where the military can still be paid and shut the government down for a while. This lets cut a few nickles and dimes and act as though it is somehow a major accomplishment is BS.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I agree that it will happen. It is the responsibility of both parties to make it happen.
    Agreed. If this does not happen I would also view it as a dramatic failure in leadership by Mr. Obama. However, I don't think it will happen, no matter how dumb politicians can be. Its just grandstanding as usual, not that I approve of hinting at something like this in the first place.

    I would prefer politicians duke this out when actually approving the budget. That needs to happen.
    Last edited by drz-400; 05-16-11 at 11:39 PM.

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    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Not what I'm saying at all.

    I'm saying that under current proposals, these are the groups that bear the greatest burden of the cuts; as if they are being punished for the government's mishandling of our tax payer dollars. The entitlement programs must be fixed, no doubt. But so must the frighteningly inflated military budget (still largely being ignored - the best anyone's offered is taking the cuts Gates proposed and pretending that was enough) and the disturbing amounts of corporate tax subsidies are government gives out to the industries who pay the most for lobbying.

    These things are all being ignored while we attack the old and the poor.

    Again, the guy in the district next door to me ran on the Tea Party platform and won. Good for him. But he collected more than $3.2 million in farm subsidies over the decade leading up to his election and he's done nothing to prevent the suckling of the government teat that his family still maintains (much less so in his name, but still his family's farms). So why should my mother sacrifice her Medicare before a fifty-something elected representative tells his family to stop taking farm subsidies?

    I get your mistrust of the left. Believe me, I do. But we spend more than twice on farm subsidies than what we do on college grants for qualified but poor students. Worse, most of that money (and this is redistribution of wealth, by the way) goes to gigantic corporations. And if you don't believe me, I'll give you my far-from-liberal source. So, you can see where I find some of these proposals to be less than fair. I have a guy in the 8th District of Tennessee saying voting for a budget that won't effect his suckling of the government teat, but makes people like my Medicare-recipient mother, my severely mentally-retarded uncle (65 now, doctors said he would die before 13), and people who work at lower-wage jobs suffer the burden, while he takes their tax dollars (except for my severely mentally retarded uncle, he never worked) and pays his family's farms with it.

    I'm with you on redistribution of wealth. But I'd rather a poor kid get a grant to go to college than a guy whose already rich getting richer off my tax dollars due to a corrupt system that gets completely ignored in this discussion.

    Ok, so tell me what the landscape looks like after we increase taxes on "the rich", on Corporations, and they all pick up and get the hell out of dodge?

    Aren't you really promoting a class warfare kind of society, that would see reduced standard of living here in the US so that your vision of social, and economic justice, what ever that is attained?

    j-mac
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    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, so tell me what the landscape looks like after we increase taxes on "the rich", on Corporations, and they all pick up and get the hell out of dodge?

    Aren't you really promoting a class warfare kind of society, that would see reduced standard of living here in the US so that your vision of social, and economic justice, what ever that is attained?

    j-mac
    hopefully the landscape will look a lot like the 90's......

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    One must crack a few eggs to make an omelet. That said, the debt limit should not be raised. I mean why have a "debt ceiling" if it can be raised all the time? We have spent enough. Time to buckle down boys.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    This is not the time for political ideologues and a "my way or the highway" approach. The economic health of the United States of America is at stake here, and while the US scrambles in a battle to avoid default on the debt, a battle which is uncertain, I consider whoever fiddles while our economy burns to be traitors.

    Right now, this has turned into a battle between Wall Street and the crazies who have hijacked the Republican Party. The way I see it, if Republicans want to destroy their own party, they are on the right track to do it. But destroying America's economy, because they are not getting what they want at this time, is a morally reprehensible act, which will have dire consequences. Time to be responsible. If you (and I am talking to the jihad wing of the GOP here) want to act like babies and brats, you should do it on your own dime, and not that of your country. Just agree to raise the debt limit, and then feel free to engage in your ideological war later, during the 2012 election campaign. This is neither the time nor the place for it.

    Article is here.
    Great post.

    What is interesting is how even the day to day GOP posturing ripples through the market. This effects all of us.

    The GOP plays games and postures for their base, meanwhile, portfolios, retirement funds, and POWERFUL hedge funds, take a hit.

    I think we need more hearings like the one with the Oil Companies. All Fed Tax Subsidies to Fortune 500's need to be examined. What are we, the tax payer, getting in return for our investment? If a company getting subsidies or some other type of tax incentives is not producing 1) Jobs, 2)New technology, 3)Better goods / services at a lower price... Then what is the point?

    A real Tea Party - not the corporate funded joke that it has become - but a REAL TEA PARTY would demand to have all corporate welfare examined in terms of what are we getting in return.

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    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    The US needs to be more concerned with lowering the debt. Raising the ceiling is not going to accomplish that. As it stands, I dont think politicians on either side are truly working to lower it enough. Most politicians are more concerned with being reelected or making the other side look bad than they are fixing problems. 2 things need to happen for our country to get back on track economically. First the US needs to cut spending to reduce the debt, and secondly we need to be bringing more money in. As Americans we have made doing business here and especially from here a hassle. One that many companies are choosing not to do. We need to bring business back. I know its an obvious point but one that is often overlooked. We need more people paying taxes. And more importantly, we need more big companies paying taxes.

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