Page 4 of 19 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 188

Thread: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

  1. #31
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    That's not it at all.

    The cuts necessary to stop spending more on a daily basis between now and August 2nd, would essentially require us to completely disband the military and stop every Medicare and Medicaid payment. And even them, the interest on the existing debt would still make each daily outlay greater than daily income.

    The debt ceiling has nothing to do with future spending (or spending cuts).

    The debt ceiling is the point at which the US can no longer spend what it borrows. The only response can be to not make promised payments (usually in repaying Treasury Bonds). If we don't pay on Treasury Bonds, they become worthless. The dollar collapses and the economy falls apart.

    This isn't about spending cuts, deficits, or the debt, its self. This is about paying for the sins of the past.

    If you cut up your credit card today, but kept making the minimum payment, your interest is still going to accrue. You've done a good thing by cutting up the card; but if your interest goes above your credit limit and you don't pay it, you're going to get your ass in trouble and your account will be cancelled and then, instead of payments, you will be forced to pay the whole thing in one fell swoop. Now, you can call the credit card company and ask for a credit limit extension that will prevent overlimit fees and the risk of your account being cancelled. OR you can decimate your livelihood by trying to pay off your credit balance all at once.

    You may disagree, but most Americans of all political stripes agree that we have to cut up the credit card. And we have to make more than the minimum payments on it. But none of that has to do with the debt ceiling. If we don't raise the debt ceiling, cutting spending in the future won't matter; because it will harm our economy to a degree that will only make matters unmanageable. The increase of the debt ceiling shouldn't be held hostage to specific and promised cuts. And anyone who claims that we can fix this without looking at revenues (tax increases), shouldn't be taken seriously.

    Do you believe 'little' Dick Durban this past weekend when he says that $21 Billion is a good start on Trillions? Hell you might as well piss into the wind.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #32
    Global Moderator
    Truth will set you free
    digsbe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Metro Washington DC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,983

    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    I think it's an incredible shame and embarrassment that we have reached the debt ceiling. We shouldn't raise the debt limit, maybe it would force the Obama administration to make a sustainable budget.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  3. #33
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think it's an incredible shame and embarrassment that we have reached the debt ceiling. We shouldn't raise the debt limit, maybe it would force the Obama administration to make a sustainable budget.

    You are correct, it is a shame. I think it high time that we took a serious look at what got us here. Programs like

    Welfare, Medicaid, SS, and Medicare.

    Didn't the President enact a panel to render a report to do exactly this? What has he done with their recommendations?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #34
    Professor

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Last Seen
    11-21-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,120

    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    and anyone who says the answer is to take more of my money to continue this shennagins "shouldnt be taken seriously"
    he should actually be taken out back and..but I digress

    if revenue is the answer, then create jobs.
    and you cant create jobs by raising taxes, thats just silly.

    You create jobs by giving companies incentives to keep those jobs at home.
    You create that incentive by making the opposite less appealing. Any business man will settle for making what he can make vs nothing.
    China wants to continue shipping goods to us made overseas then they pay higher taxes on the imports... or keep it..

    they call in their chips, we should have taken that first trillion in "stimulas" and payed them off...

    the stimulas did Nothing except make matters worse by prolonging the inevitable, like you're doing again..
    you keep peddling fear and we will get nowhere..

    games over kimosobi, time to get serious
    listen to the GOP on this one
    I suggested looking at revenues. To take this problem seriously, you need to have everything on the table.

    There are many people who simply state, outright: Government spending is bad for jobs...

    Really? So, the building of the Interstate Highway System (government spending) didn't create jobs?

    The GI Bill in post-WW2 (government spending) didn't create jobs?

    The Space Race (government spending) didn't create jobs?

    The Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (government spending) didn't create jobs?

    The answer is: they all did - and most of them (even the wars) in the private sector through contracts with private industry.

    The problem we've had lately is that we do pass giant spending bills (like two wars) without raising the revenues to pay for them.

    I've never said (and I reiterated in my previous post) that we HAVE to cut up the credit card. We've got to cut spending. But we've let this problem (both sides of the spectrum) get so large, that to take some tax increases completely off the table is to be disingenuous in trying to fix the problem.

    Hell, even Paul Ryan recognizes this (sort of) in his highly heralded budget plan. He lowers rates, yes. But he does so by eliminating loopholes, meaning some will likely pay more in taxes than they do now.

  5. #35
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Revenues will have to be a part of this down the road FFG, that's an inescapable truth. however, we have been down this road of asking liberals to bargain in good faith before...they lie. Now it is up to libs to go first.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  6. #36
    Professor

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Last Seen
    11-21-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,120

    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    and anyone who says the answer is to take more of my money to continue this shennagins "shouldnt be taken seriously"
    he should actually be taken out back and..but I digress

    if revenue is the answer, then create jobs.
    and you cant create jobs by raising taxes, thats just silly.

    You create jobs by giving companies incentives to keep those jobs at home.
    You create that incentive by making the opposite less appealing. Any business man will settle for making what he can make vs nothing.
    China wants to continue shipping goods to us made overseas then they pay higher taxes on the imports... or keep it..

    they call in their chips, we should have taken that first trillion in "stimulas" and payed them off...

    the stimulas did Nothing except make matters worse by prolonging the inevitable, like you're doing again..
    you keep peddling fear and we will get nowhere..

    games over kimosobi, time to get serious
    listen to the GOP on this one

    According to the Congressional Research Service (a division of the Library of Congress):

    We CAN make our debt obligations and not default IF we do the following:

    "To put this into context," the report said, "the federal government would have to eliminate all spending on discretionary programs, cut nearly 70 percent of outlays for mandatory programs, increase revenue collection by nearly two-thirds, or take some combination of those actions in the second half of FY2011 in order to avoid increasing the debt limit. Additional spending cuts and/or revenue increases would be required, under current policy, in FY2012 and beyond to avoid increasing the debt limit."

    For the remainder of the year, it would mean no Medicare Payments (sorry Rand Paul, you and your doctors will HAVE to take cuts); mo Medicaid Payments (sorry states, up to you); no Social Security Payments; cutting pay for soldiers by 70%; and raising taxes by 66.6%.

    Do those things, and you won't have to raise the debt ceiling to prevent the US defaulting on its debts. Never mind that it will have defaulted to seniors, soldiers, and veterans...

    Again: let's make the cuts. But let's not hold the debt ceiling hostage to it. Utter decimation of existing programs isn't going to win anyone anything. Slowing our spending, altering future outlays in things like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security...these things are all fine. We need to sit down and figure these things out. Looking at ways of increasing revenues without decimating the economy should be part of that discussion as well.

    And to j-mac: the President's commission is being looked at. It is being pushed by Biden in outreach to members of both parties and members of the "Gang of Six" (from both sides of the aisle) are trying to craft legislation based on the recommendations.

    We've really screwed up in the past. Both parties. The screw-up was shared by both parties and by people on Wall Street, and by people on Main Street who demand too much of their government without paying for it. The sacrifice should be equally shared and not solely placed on the backs of the elderly, the poor, and the working class.

  7. #37
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post

    And to j-mac: the President's commission is being looked at. It is being pushed by Biden in outreach to members of both parties and members of the "Gang of Six" (from both sides of the aisle) are trying to craft legislation based on the recommendations.

    We've really screwed up in the past. Both parties. The screw-up was shared by both parties and by people on Wall Street, and by people on Main Street who demand too much of their government without paying for it. The sacrifice should be equally shared and not solely placed on the backs of the elderly, the poor, and the working class.

    I can agree with nearly everything you said to me here, except for one thing....When you talk of the sacrifice being "equally shared" then turn around and say that you can't place it on the backs of:

    Ederly: A lion share of Medicare payments go to this group and it has a multi trillion dollar unfunded liability.

    Poor: You mean the recipient voter class that pays no tax, but collects tax money back in some quasi redistribution nightmare?

    working class: ie: Unions? Because although I am that middle class individual, but not a member of any union, so I guess I don't count.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  8. #38
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:51 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,305

    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Treasury to tap pensions to help fund government - The Washington Post

    Looky at what Turbotax Geithner is up to. Now they're going to borrow against money that doesn't belong to them. Of course maybe that's really business as usual, just a different pot of money.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  9. #39
    Slayer of the DP Newsbot
    danarhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    39,747

    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Treasury to tap pensions to help fund government - The Washington Post

    Looky at what Turbotax Geithner is up to. Now they're going to borrow against money that doesn't belong to them. Of course maybe that's really business as usual, just a different pot of money.
    The alternative would be a complete economic meltdown. Doing this, and also a few other things, the administration has put off financial Armageddon until about August 2..... Maybe. Hopefully, in the meantime, people can come to their senses and do what needs to be done.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  10. #40
    Professor

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Last Seen
    11-21-14 @ 03:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    2,120

    Re: As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I can agree with nearly everything you said to me here, except for one thing....When you talk of the sacrifice being "equally shared" then turn around and say that you can't place it on the backs of:

    Ederly: A lion share of Medicare payments go to this group and it has a multi trillion dollar unfunded liability.

    Poor: You mean the recipient voter class that pays no tax, but collects tax money back in some quasi redistribution nightmare?

    working class: ie: Unions? Because although I am that middle class individual, but not a member of any union, so I guess I don't count.

    j-mac
    Not what I'm saying at all.

    I'm saying that under current proposals, these are the groups that bear the greatest burden of the cuts; as if they are being punished for the government's mishandling of our tax payer dollars. The entitlement programs must be fixed, no doubt. But so must the frighteningly inflated military budget (still largely being ignored - the best anyone's offered is taking the cuts Gates proposed and pretending that was enough) and the disturbing amounts of corporate tax subsidies are government gives out to the industries who pay the most for lobbying.

    These things are all being ignored while we attack the old and the poor.

    Again, the guy in the district next door to me ran on the Tea Party platform and won. Good for him. But he collected more than $3.2 million in farm subsidies over the decade leading up to his election and he's done nothing to prevent the suckling of the government teat that his family still maintains (much less so in his name, but still his family's farms). So why should my mother sacrifice her Medicare before a fifty-something elected representative tells his family to stop taking farm subsidies?

    I get your mistrust of the left. Believe me, I do. But we spend more than twice on farm subsidies than what we do on college grants for qualified but poor students. Worse, most of that money (and this is redistribution of wealth, by the way) goes to gigantic corporations. And if you don't believe me, I'll give you my far-from-liberal source. So, you can see where I find some of these proposals to be less than fair. I have a guy in the 8th District of Tennessee saying voting for a budget that won't effect his suckling of the government teat, but makes people like my Medicare-recipient mother, my severely mentally-retarded uncle (65 now, doctors said he would die before 13), and people who work at lower-wage jobs suffer the burden, while he takes their tax dollars (except for my severely mentally retarded uncle, he never worked) and pays his family's farms with it.

    I'm with you on redistribution of wealth. But I'd rather a poor kid get a grant to go to college than a guy whose already rich getting richer off my tax dollars due to a corrupt system that gets completely ignored in this discussion.

Page 4 of 19 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •