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Thread: Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder

  1. #51
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    Re: Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Mercenaries serve their purpose. I'm not morally opposed to hiring them and I have respect for the profession, like I have respect for any warrior. I am just growing increasingly concerned with our government outsourcing our national security objectives to organizations that do not operate under the direct authority and supervision of our military. It's like prison guards. They perform an absolutely essential service, but any sensible government is going to keep those functions in-house.
    I disagree. I think it would be even more dangerous to use them inside our state. It has been made clear that they're not bound by the same legal and civil restrictions which bind soldiers, police officers. A state could simply create legal loopholes for mercenaries to operate with free roam. With that being said, do you really want a guy who has more allegiance to his paycheck than he does to rights to do work in the country? No, I think we should completely disband these "contractors" and simply push for a more militarized society to fill whatever jobs they leave behind. The military can be indoctrinated and taught to fight for something other than their paychecks. Contractors? They're in it for the money. Any allusion to the contrary is ridiculous.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #52
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    Re: Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Contractors? They're in it for the money. Any allusion to the contrary is ridiculous.
    There's a contract out on you...




    Relax

    Just kiddin' there, champ

  3. #53
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    Re: Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Yeah, its hard on family members

    I kinda threw a q at Manc about mercs, but I got no reply. Actually the initial question is rather interesting

    For all of you out there

    A contractor is an individual being paid to carry out defensive security Ops for a local work force. Use of force is applicable in only certain situations against specific threats.

    A merc is an individual being paid to conduct offensive Ops against any target the employer chooses.
    Close, but no cigar. Semantic quibbling does not alter the facts.

    "A mercenary is a person who takes part in an armed conflict, who is not a national or a party to the conflict, and is "motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party" (Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Convention of August 1949)"
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  4. #54
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    Re: Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Close, but no cigar. Semantic quibbling does not alter the facts.

    "A mercenary is a person who takes part in an armed conflict, who is not a national or a party to the conflict, and is "motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party" (Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Convention of August 1949)"
    I thought the Geneva convention outlawed mercenaries? Doesn't it make them unlawful combatants?
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    There's a contract out on you...

    Relax

    Just kiddin' there, champ
    Meh, at least you aren't stupid enough to continue asserting that Sun Tzu was what was it you called him again? A pussy? As football hooligans love to say: jog on mate.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Close, but no cigar. Semantic quibbling does not alter the facts.
    No one called me a merc when I did essentially the same job for a rich gal in Tampa.

    What's the difference? Was it the Caraceni suit and tie instead of 5.11s and paraclete?

    The concealed Glock instead of an M4?

    Please tell....I'm all ears

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    Re: Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Meh, at least you aren't stupid enough to continue asserting that Sun Tzu was what was it you called him again? A pussy? As football hooligans love to say: jog on mate.
    Again...what is your CQB experience?

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    Re: Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder

    Moderator's Warning:
    And we are done with this. Back on topic.

  9. #59
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    Re: Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Everything you wrote is true? I'd be surprised if less than half of it was mental masturbation by what is clearly an ignorant little twit pretending he's something he isn't
    dude. people on this board have known me for abouuutt... well gosh, some of them probably about 6 ish years now. my history is pretty "out there", and my service is under my user name. but whatever it's not exactly like i have to worry about proving myself to people who wouldn't even know that me saying SIR-FIRST-FEMALE-MARINE-IS-OPHA-MAE-JOHNSON-SIR is all the evidence I need.

    Tell us about a single state that has ever needed mercenaries to defend itself and is now standing?
    The United States of America - you may have noticed it's written into our Constitution about issuing letters of Marque? you didn't think that all those folks out in the Revolution were strictly in it for the nobility of the Cause?

    Oh. The Vatican. Has used mercenaries (the Swiss Guard) for centuries now. As I recall it was the same (or a brother) unit that defended the French Kings as well, until Louis 16 panicked and ordered them to turn themselves over to the Parisan mob (at which point they were torn to pieces). But their defense there is one of the great siege stories in history - tens against thousands kind of stuff.

    Britain. Has used the Ghurkas for gosh - two centuries?

    You are fighting a strawman anyway. nobody ever argued that we should or do need mercenaries, simply that we can use them.

    The point of uniting China was not to maintain a single dynasty.
    really? i'm pretty sure that the Chin would have been surprised to hear that, given that was, in fact, precisely their goal.

    no, i'm sure they meant all along to get overthrown by the Han...

    It was to end political instability caused by uncontrollable states (ie establishing a state). This is model still followed today even by the supposedly Chinese 'communist regime'. Seriously do they teach you ANY military history?
    actually i learned about this period when i studied it in undergrad. the period you are describing is known alternately as the "latter" or "Western Chou" and the "Warring States", although "Latter Chou" is used more generally by scholars to refer to the pre-Warring States (but still states at war) period known as the "Spring and Autumn" period. I'm using Chou, yes, instead of Zhou, that's because I have a bad habit of switching back and forth between Pinyin and Wade Giles (which, you no doubt are aware are the two main transliteration systems for Chinese). It was during S&A, for example, that Confucius lived and taught. It's also when Lau-tsu wrote the Tao-te-chung. The Waring States is the latter period, and it is when The Art of War was compiled. I say compiled, because we aren't really sure that a Sun Tzu lived and wrote the whole thing - much of what we have comes to us from a Han guy named Cao Cao (pronounced Chow-Chow); and it seems more likely to be the result of multiple attestations and later redactionary work.

    The Chinese today utilize some of the system of governance first set up by the Latter Han - to distinguish it from the Early Han, who took over from the Ch'in, who were Legalists (Han were Confucian). It was the Latter Han which originally set up what would flower under the Tang as the fully - grown civil service corps, complete with the famously rigorous examination system that would last in purity preeetty much until the Self-Strengtheners got modern engineering added in in the late-19th Century. Then they got their butt kicked by the Japanese on the Liao-dong peninsula, and Empress Tsu-Xi screwed them over by throwing her lot in with the Boxers. After that it was all she wrote - but it was THAT tradition that maintained continuity through multiple Dynasties, including the foreign ones. Not Sun Tzu. The tradition of the local uber-competent bureaucrat lived on somewhat through the Warlords Period after the collapse of the Dynasty in 1911 - generally whoever was local and in charge became even more local and even more in charge. After the Reds took over in the 50's, it wasn't hard to take that same tradition of academic rigor for governance and try to pour it into the dialectic. (mind you, first Mao went with the Thousand Flowers campaign - but that was because he was a sneaky little bastard, not because he thought that was the best way to take advantage of China's academic traditions). Other than that echo, however, much of the system itself was destroyed as relics of an Imperialist Past that was No Longer Part Of The New Future etc.

    Or did you pick up even a single book on the matter?
    oh, one or two...
    Last edited by cpwill; 05-16-11 at 11:13 PM.

  10. #60
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    Re: Secret Desert Force Set Up by Blackwater’s Founder

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    I am just growing increasingly concerned with our government outsourcing our national security objectives to organizations that do not operate under the direct authority and supervision of our military.
    Then ask yourself this - If the military had retained most of the people currently out with private firms by merely paying the men what they're really worth, would we be having this discussion at all?

    Consider how much it costs to train someone just to reach the point where they can perform in the real world - it has to be a staggering amount of money and a huge investment in time.

    And after all that, they rotate them out....Why?

    There is not a single contractor *out there* that is drafted to do their job or having a gun put to his head and told to leave the compound and perform his mission. When these folks were PFCs it was their job to charge into the fight without the proper equipment etc and accomplish the mission.

    Now, as civs, you are basically on your own and it means "you do what ya gotta do and if you get caught, I don't know you." It means you're a big Boy and we hired you to do a job, so get on with it

    So, when you step up to the plate and take, the man's money, you are expected to hit the ground running and be TTP proficient.

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