majora$$hole
DP Veteran
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not for about 100 years have the masons pulled them harder than the oil company's.the masons?
not for about 100 years have the masons pulled them harder than the oil company's.the masons?
Why is that the issue? We need prodigious quantities of inexpensive energy. How much we consume is not even relevant. We will consume all we can get our hands on. So, how do we provide inexpensive energy? We let energy companies loose to do what they can, when they can and where they can. We eliminate every rule, regulation, or law that stands in the way.The issue is that we consume twice what can be produced by U.S. oil companies.
Therefore what? Do we never start? What about drilling on land? It is pretty darned easy. We have lots of land and lots of oil. Let's go get it.It can take up to 5 years for a deep sea rig to actually deliver its first barrel of oil.
Okay. So?In the same time, auto companies can produce millions of energy efficient vehicles.
Maybe you cannot. But someone can.There really is no way around it; you cannot drill your way out it!
Clearly you do not understand value.Here's your value:
Offering countering information that's readily available through a number of unbiased sources to posters who firmly believe increased US drilling will lower their fuel costs seems similar to arguing with flat earth people.
Why is that the issue? We need prodigious quantities of inexpensive energy. How much we consume is not even relevant. We will consume all we can get our hands on. So, how do we provide inexpensive energy? We let energy companies loose to do what they can, when they can and where they can. We eliminate every rule, regulation, or law that stands in the way
Therefore what? Do we never start? What about drilling on land? It is pretty darned easy. We have lots of land and lots of oil. Let's go get it.
Okay. So?
Maybe you cannot. But someone can.
You lack imagination. You see demand but not supply. I sometimes see this blindness in people who have an inability to solve problems because they (think they) know too much.You simply lack an understanding of petroleum market; specifically the demand side qualities (lack of substitutes) which in turn dictate price. There is no "drilling our way out of" future price increase and you overestimate our production possibilities in regards to petroleum.
Talking points. There are many causes to increases in oil prices. We can influence one of them. Supply.Again, your solution (and many others like it) ignore the cause of oil price increases. We cannot expect 5 % of the worlds population to consume 25 % of all oil produced without serious upward pressure on the long term price of oil.
Except that in your eager, willing blindness you do not see the two sides to this issue, worldwide demand, and worldwide supply. We can affect supply by drilling for oil in the US and by opening as many nuclear power plants as we might ever need.Why? That is how supply and demand function.
You are a "one-trick pony. It gets pretty boring after a while.Fuel efficiency decreases quantity demanded and given the inelastic properties of petro, a 1% decrease in consumption will lead to greater than 1% decrease in the price.
You lack imagination. You see demand but not supply. I sometimes see this blindness in people who have an inability to solve problems because they (think they) know too much.
Talking points. There are many causes to increases in oil prices. We can influence one of them. Supply.
Except that in your eager, willing blindness you do not see the two sides to this issue, worldwide demand, and worldwide supply. We can affect supply by drilling for oil in the US and by opening as many nuclear power plants as we might ever need.
You are a "one-trick pony. It gets pretty boring after a while.
My rationality is tempered by experience. How about yours?You lack economic rationality due to ideology, which in turn leads you down a difficult path as reality bites you in the ass. If you believe the U.S. has the productive capacity to offset emerging market demand for petro, then i have some prime real estate in Cuba for sale if you are interested.
Are you aware that in systems small changes can have large effects? Just beginning to seriously face this problem will change its dynamics. If the one term president Obama announced this afternoon that we are embarking on a great resurgence of nuclear power with a one hundred million dollar prize for the best design for a new generation of nuclear power plants with all rules and regulations waived on the nuclear power industry for the next fifty years do you lack the imagination to see what would happen to oil prices?No, those are statistics. But do entertain me. What ratio of increased (daily/monthly/annual) production would allow the U.S. production to have a 75% convergence with demand within 20 years?
I believe you are one dimensional in your thinking. That will do just fine in a world with no more than two dimensions.And you do not understand how they work (supply/demand). Will a 10% increase in global production have a 10% decrease in the price of petrol?
I am trying to help you to see that many of the things you know give you an incomplete view of this particular reality.It gets boring when your strategy is to ignore my argument (actually, you pretend like it does not exist) and then take your opinion as fact without demonstrating any knowledge of global supply or demand trends. So do yourself a favor; get familiarized with the actual data and come back when you have an actual argument.
My rationality is tempered by experience. How about yours?
Are you aware that in systems small changes can have large effects? Just beginning to seriously face this problem will change its dynamics. If the one term president Obama announced this afternoon that we are embarking on a great resurgence of nuclear power with a one hundred million dollar prize for the best design for a new generation of nuclear power plants with all rules and regulations waived on the nuclear power industry for the next fifty years do you lack the imagination to see what would happen to oil prices?
And further imagine what would happen if the one term president Obama announced that we would begin drilling in ANWR with all permits possible starting in July how fast do you think the oil prices would change?
I believe you are one dimensional in your thinking. That will do just fine in a world with no more than two dimensions.
I am trying to help you to see that many of the things you know give you an incomplete view of this particular reality.
Excellent answer. But your answer is suspect because I know you lean conservative.Ooh! Ooh! I wanna answer!
The speculater would be forced to start speculating down rather than speculating up? Plus, OPEC would increase production, because they know for every million barrels of oil the U.S. produces domestically, that a million barrels of oil that won't be able to sell us.
Lets put it this way, speculators know they can push the price up because demand is up only and supply is bottlenecked in refineries and domestic supply is flat.
However if you start crushing domestic demand by combining green approaches like wind, solar, and water with clean coal, shale oil, domestic exploration, and a new refineries or refinery retrofitting for efficiency, speculators wont be betting on a sure thing of oil going up.
Not to mention the side effect : US jobs.
My rationality is tempered by experience. How about yours?
Are you aware that in systems small changes can have large effects? Just beginning to seriously face this problem will change its dynamics. If the one term president Obama announced this afternoon that we are embarking on a great resurgence of nuclear power with a one hundred million dollar prize for the best design for a new generation of nuclear power plants with all rules and regulations waived on the nuclear power industry for the next fifty years do you lack the imagination to see what would happen to oil prices?
And further imagine what would happen if the one term president Obama announced that we would begin drilling in ANWR with all permits possible starting in July how fast do you think the oil prices would change?
I believe you are one dimensional in your thinking. That will do just fine in a world with no more than two dimensions.
I am trying to help you to see that many of the things you know give you an incomplete view of this particular reality.
The answer is not drilling more wells. The answer is electric cars. They're quieter, more efficient, eventually cheaper, and they eliminate all worries about oil supplies.
Electric cars? Are you kidding me? The technology is not anywhere near advanced enough to overtake the combustion engine, and be cost effective. Infrastructures are lacking. Power is still generated by predominately fossil fuel, ie coal. And they are small, Spartan, and unapealing.
This country, Hell, the world is a petrol based economy. No one wants your expensive, ugly, environmentally damaging so called alternative. If they did they would have sold more than 10,000 units last year.
You can't force people to do what you want them to in a free society. While we are still one that is.
J-mac
It seems to me I addressed your wrong thinking by pointing out right thinking. Why do you think I "hate" the one term president Obama?You failed to respond to any of my points, and instead spat a few red herrings as a means to cover and run. If you want to talk about your experience, or how much you hate Obama, start a different thread. So far you have failed to provide a single shred of substance to substantiate your position.
Telling me that i am wrong because i don't know i'm wrong does not cut it!
You like coal-powered cars? Fine. Do you agree with the one term president Obama's desire to put the coal companies out of business? If so where will your coal-powered car gets it energy from?The answer is not drilling more wells. The answer is electric cars. They're quieter, more efficient, eventually cheaper, and they eliminate all worries about oil supplies.
You like coal-powered cars? Fine. Do you agree with the one term president Obama's desire to put the coal companies out of business? If so where will your coal-powered car gets it energy from?
You say they will eventually be cheaper. How much time do you think it will take for them to be cheaper?
It seems to me I addressed your wrong thinking by pointing out right thinking. Why do you think I "hate" the one term president Obama?
You are wrong on every count. Electric cars can reach highway speeds without difficulty, they're no smaller than regular sedans, and they're only slightly more expensive, usually around 25k. They can be charged out of a regular wall socket, although it'll probably take all night. And the technology will improve rapidly once people actually start putting some research into it. And the reason only 10,000 were sold last year is because they were only introduced late last year.
And jesus christ, why do you immediately jump to "OMG HE'S GOING TO FORCE US TO CONVERT TO HIS EVAL SOCIALIST WAYZ!!!111oneone"? I'm suggesting that electric cars would make a much better solution to our current problem than more drilling. Maybe some of those subsidies the government loves to give the oil companies would come in handy here.
I don't believe I am wrong, but you are more than able to show me if you like, I am open to discuss. But the bottom line is that I don't think electric cars are the solution.
For instance, I drive a truck for a living, what about them?
j-mac
Trucks should be replaced by high speed rail, IMO. You still need trucks for local distribution, but for interstate transport, rail works much better.
Imagine that. Something we agree upon.We need more nuclear plants to replace coal and more research into better forms of nuclear. As for electric cars, give it four or five years. Technology improves quickly.