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Thread: With Gas Prices Soaring, Obama Looks to Ramp Up U.S. Oil Production

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    Re: With Gas Prices Soaring, Obama Looks to Ramp Up U.S. Oil Production

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You simply lack an understanding of petroleum market; specifically the demand side qualities (lack of substitutes) which in turn dictate price. There is no "drilling our way out of" future price increase and you overestimate our production possibilities in regards to petroleum.
    You lack imagination. You see demand but not supply. I sometimes see this blindness in people who have an inability to solve problems because they (think they) know too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Again, your solution (and many others like it) ignore the cause of oil price increases. We cannot expect 5 % of the worlds population to consume 25 % of all oil produced without serious upward pressure on the long term price of oil.
    Talking points. There are many causes to increases in oil prices. We can influence one of them. Supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Why? That is how supply and demand function.
    Except that in your eager, willing blindness you do not see the two sides to this issue, worldwide demand, and worldwide supply. We can affect supply by drilling for oil in the US and by opening as many nuclear power plants as we might ever need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Fuel efficiency decreases quantity demanded and given the inelastic properties of petro, a 1% decrease in consumption will lead to greater than 1% decrease in the price.
    You are a "one-trick pony. It gets pretty boring after a while.

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    Re: With Gas Prices Soaring, Obama Looks to Ramp Up U.S. Oil Production

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    You lack imagination. You see demand but not supply. I sometimes see this blindness in people who have an inability to solve problems because they (think they) know too much.
    You lack economic rationality due to ideology, which in turn leads you down a difficult path as reality bites you in the ass. If you believe the U.S. has the productive capacity to offset emerging market demand for petro, then i have some prime real estate in Cuba for sale if you are interested.

    Talking points. There are many causes to increases in oil prices. We can influence one of them. Supply.
    No, those are statistics. But do entertain me. What ratio of increased (daily/monthly/annual) production would allow the U.S. production to have a 75% convergence with demand within 20 years?

    Except that in your eager, willing blindness you do not see the two sides to this issue, worldwide demand, and worldwide supply. We can affect supply by drilling for oil in the US and by opening as many nuclear power plants as we might ever need.
    And you do not understand how they work (supply/demand). Will a 10% increase in global production have a 10% decrease in the price of petro?


    You are a "one-trick pony. It gets pretty boring after a while.
    It gets boring when your strategy is to ignore my argument (actually, you pretend like it does not exist) and then take your opinion as fact without demonstrating any knowledge of global supply or demand trends. So do yourself a favor; get familiarized with the actual data and come back when you have an actual argument.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: With Gas Prices Soaring, Obama Looks to Ramp Up U.S. Oil Production

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You lack economic rationality due to ideology, which in turn leads you down a difficult path as reality bites you in the ass. If you believe the U.S. has the productive capacity to offset emerging market demand for petro, then i have some prime real estate in Cuba for sale if you are interested.
    My rationality is tempered by experience. How about yours?
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    No, those are statistics. But do entertain me. What ratio of increased (daily/monthly/annual) production would allow the U.S. production to have a 75% convergence with demand within 20 years?
    Are you aware that in systems small changes can have large effects? Just beginning to seriously face this problem will change its dynamics. If the one term president Obama announced this afternoon that we are embarking on a great resurgence of nuclear power with a one hundred million dollar prize for the best design for a new generation of nuclear power plants with all rules and regulations waived on the nuclear power industry for the next fifty years do you lack the imagination to see what would happen to oil prices?
    And further imagine what would happen if the one term president Obama announced that we would begin drilling in ANWR with all permits possible starting in July how fast do you think the oil prices would change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    And you do not understand how they work (supply/demand). Will a 10% increase in global production have a 10% decrease in the price of petrol?
    I believe you are one dimensional in your thinking. That will do just fine in a world with no more than two dimensions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    It gets boring when your strategy is to ignore my argument (actually, you pretend like it does not exist) and then take your opinion as fact without demonstrating any knowledge of global supply or demand trends. So do yourself a favor; get familiarized with the actual data and come back when you have an actual argument.
    I am trying to help you to see that many of the things you know give you an incomplete view of this particular reality.

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    Re: With Gas Prices Soaring, Obama Looks to Ramp Up U.S. Oil Production

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    My rationality is tempered by experience. How about yours?

    Are you aware that in systems small changes can have large effects? Just beginning to seriously face this problem will change its dynamics. If the one term president Obama announced this afternoon that we are embarking on a great resurgence of nuclear power with a one hundred million dollar prize for the best design for a new generation of nuclear power plants with all rules and regulations waived on the nuclear power industry for the next fifty years do you lack the imagination to see what would happen to oil prices?

    And further imagine what would happen if the one term president Obama announced that we would begin drilling in ANWR with all permits possible starting in July how fast do you think the oil prices would change?


    I believe you are one dimensional in your thinking. That will do just fine in a world with no more than two dimensions.

    I am trying to help you to see that many of the things you know give you an incomplete view of this particular reality.
    Ooh! Ooh! I wanna answer!

    The speculater would be forced to start speculating down rather than speculating up? Plus, OPEC would increase production, because they know for every million barrels of oil the U.S. produces domestically, that a million barrels of oil that won't be able to sell us.
    Last edited by apdst; 06-11-11 at 04:28 PM.

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    Re: With Gas Prices Soaring, Obama Looks to Ramp Up U.S. Oil Production

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ooh! Ooh! I wanna answer!

    The speculater would be forced to start speculating down rather than speculating up? Plus, OPEC would increase production, because they know for every million barrels of oil the U.S. produces domestically, that a million barrels of oil that won't be able to sell us.
    Excellent answer. But your answer is suspect because I know you lean conservative.

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    Re: With Gas Prices Soaring, Obama Looks to Ramp Up U.S. Oil Production

    Lets put it this way, speculators know they can push the price up because demand is up only and supply is bottlenecked in refineries and domestic supply is flat.

    However if you start crushing domestic demand by combining green approaches like wind, solar, and water with clean coal, shale oil, domestic exploration, and a new refineries or refinery retrofitting for efficiency, speculators wont be betting on a sure thing of oil going up.

    Not to mention the side effect : US jobs.

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    Re: With Gas Prices Soaring, Obama Looks to Ramp Up U.S. Oil Production

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Lets put it this way, speculators know they can push the price up because demand is up only and supply is bottlenecked in refineries and domestic supply is flat.

    However if you start crushing domestic demand by combining green approaches like wind, solar, and water with clean coal, shale oil, domestic exploration, and a new refineries or refinery retrofitting for efficiency, speculators wont be betting on a sure thing of oil going up.

    Not to mention the side effect : US jobs.
    The tree huggers are working overtime to help the speculators.

    Sand Dune Lizard Could Cost Jobs in Texas If Added to Endangered Species List - ABC News

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    Re: With Gas Prices Soaring, Obama Looks to Ramp Up U.S. Oil Production

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    My rationality is tempered by experience. How about yours?

    Are you aware that in systems small changes can have large effects? Just beginning to seriously face this problem will change its dynamics. If the one term president Obama announced this afternoon that we are embarking on a great resurgence of nuclear power with a one hundred million dollar prize for the best design for a new generation of nuclear power plants with all rules and regulations waived on the nuclear power industry for the next fifty years do you lack the imagination to see what would happen to oil prices?
    And further imagine what would happen if the one term president Obama announced that we would begin drilling in ANWR with all permits possible starting in July how fast do you think the oil prices would change?


    I believe you are one dimensional in your thinking. That will do just fine in a world with no more than two dimensions.

    I am trying to help you to see that many of the things you know give you an incomplete view of this particular reality.
    You failed to respond to any of my points, and instead spat a few red herrings as a means to cover and run. If you want to talk about your experience, or how much you hate Obama, start a different thread. So far you have failed to provide a single shred of substance to substantiate your position.

    Telling me that i am wrong because i don't know i'm wrong does not cut it!
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: With Gas Prices Soaring, Obama Looks to Ramp Up U.S. Oil Production

    The answer is not drilling more wells. The answer is electric cars. They're quieter, more efficient, eventually cheaper, and they eliminate all worries about oil supplies.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
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    Re: With Gas Prices Soaring, Obama Looks to Ramp Up U.S. Oil Production

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    The answer is not drilling more wells. The answer is electric cars. They're quieter, more efficient, eventually cheaper, and they eliminate all worries about oil supplies.
    Electric cars? Are you kidding me? The technology is not anywhere near advanced enough to overtake the combustion engine, and be cost effective. Infrastructures are lacking. Power is still generated by predominately fossil fuel, ie coal. And they are small, Spartan, and unapealing.

    This country, Hell, the world is a petrol based economy. No one wants your expensive, ugly, environmentally damaging so called alternative. If they did they would have sold more than 10,000 units last year.

    You can't force people to do what you want them to in a free society. While we are still one that is.

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