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Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

Viktyr Korimir said:
Do not fight cops in the street. You will never, ever win and even if they're wrong you'll be lucky if they even pay your hospital bills. The only weapon you can beat a cop with is a lawyer.
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A lawyer liked this post. I found that amusing.
 
X Factor said:
Actually it's a terrible way to die if that's the goal. It's inaccurate to believe that cops want to shoot and kill people and those who elect "suicide by cop" neglect the toll it takes on the officer who's forced to take a life.
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Oh, I don't believe for a second that's what they want. The bulk of their training is dedicated to avoiding it, and rightfully so. But if you've got more than one officer pointing a gun at you and you can goad one of them into firing, they're all going to empty their magazines into you. It's foolproof, and perhaps if our society didn't perversely insist on putting failed suicides in the hospital against their will, it wouldn't be such an attractive option.

X Factor said:
As an aside, we had an incident here where someone committed suicide by jumping off an overpass into the path of an oncoming truck. I didn't feel for the guy who died, he got what he wanted. I did feel for the driver of the truck.
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Yeah, that's a rough bit of business. Heard it does a number on train conductors, too.
 
The court's decision stems from a Vanderburgh County case in which police were called to investigate a husband and wife arguing outside their apartment.

When the couple went back inside their apartment, the husband told police they were not needed and blocked the doorway so they could not enter. When an officer entered anyway, the husband shoved the officer against a wall. A second officer then used a stun gun on the husband and arrested him.

Professor Ivan Bodensteiner, of Valparaiso University School of Law, said the court's decision is consistent with the idea of preventing violence. "It's not surprising that they would say there's no right to beat the hell out of the officer," Bodensteiner said. "(The court is saying) we would rather opt on the side of saying if the police act wrongfully in entering your house your remedy is under law, to bring a civil action against the officer."
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I completely agree with this reasoning. Ya' don't argue with a copper on the street or at your front door. You argue with him in court.

Resistance is futile.
 
megrimlock said:
Shoot first and ask questions later right? Just wondering though how exactly would most people know if the intrusion is legal or not?
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A warrant.

Mistakes on warrants are made, and most people are not legally versed in this sort of thing, do you really think it's a good idea for someone to go all postal just because they THINK it's an infringement of their rights?
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If the cops does not present a warrant then sure its a good idea for someone to go all postal because a police officer trespassed. As much respect as I have for law enforce they still should be treated no different than any other trespasser if they illegally trespass.
 
jamesrage said:
If the cops does not present a warrant then sure its a good idea for someone to go all postal because a police officer trespassed. As much respect as I have for law enforce they still should be treated no different than any other trespasser if they illegally trespass.
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Lack of a warrant does not mean that a police officer cannot legally enter your home. In many circumstances, cops can break down doors without warrants and be perfectly within the law.
 
MaggieD said:
Lack of a warrant does not mean that a police officer cannot legally enter your home. In many circumstances, cops can break down doors without warrants and be perfectly within the law.
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Then the police officer can document that he had a reasonable suspicion and what that reasonable suspicion is before kicking down the door. If a jury agrees that it actually was a reasonable suspicion then the homeowner can be charged with manslaughter.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
Even if they are wrong, when you kill a cop they are given a hero's funeral and yours will follow shortly. If they are wrong, resisting will make them more wrong and more likely to get away with it.

Fighting cops is a good way to die, but not until I'm ready.
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Where in did I say killing a cop? Jump far Viktyr? I'm talking about the Rights of you, the individual in general, and your on about cop killing.
 
jamesrage said:
Then the police officer can document that he had a reasonable suspicion and what that reasonable suspicion is before kicking down the door. If a jury agrees that it actually was a reasonable suspicion then the homeowner can be charged with manslaughter.
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That's ridiculous. You don't understand the law...or a copper's job.
 
Kernel Sanders said:
I don't see how the alternative would be feasible. "Unlawful entry" is something that has to be decided by the courts, not a civilian on the spot. If you think the police are acting improperly you have to seek remedy through the courts, not by assaulting a police officer. I just don't see how it can work otherwise, every asshole who wants to resist arrest could just claim he thought the cops were acting unlawfully.
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Someone comes flying through my front door they are dead meat. Looks like another home invasion robbery from my perspective. The Supreme Court will overturn this, as a violation of the 4th Amendment that requires probable cause to exist (evidence), and an order signed by the court to enter (warrant).
 
MaggieD said:
That's ridiculous. You don't understand the law...or a copper's job.
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What is ridiculous about it? A police officer should have to demonstrate that they have a legal right to trespass.
 
MaggieD said:
That's ridiculous. You don't understand the law...or a copper's job.
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Well Maggie, if you don't mind, explain the law and the police job in relation to entry without warrant. And it is not reasonable suspicion, it is probable cause with some evidence shown to the courts.
 
jamesrage said:
What is ridiculous about it? A police officer should have to demonstrate that they have a legal right to trespass.
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For some reason I was unable to give you a "like" on your statement. I can see everybody elses, like/share, but not yours. ??


Hmm, it is working now.........................
 
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shintao said:
For some reason I was unable to give you a "like" on your statement. I can see everybody elses, like/share, but not yours. ??
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We are prohibited by DebatePolitics law from liking him. The reasons go way back, but they are good ones.
 
shintao said:
Well Maggie, if you don't mind, explain the law and the police job in relation to entry without warrant. And it is not reasonable suspicion, it is probable cause with some evidence shown to the courts.
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A police officer can enter any property - break down any door - if he has a reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed. If a cop is chasing a suspect, and that suspect enters his home and closes the door, the copper does not have to get a search warrant to break it down. If a cop comes to the front door in response to a 911 call and hears screaming on the other side of the door, he does not have to get a search warrant. If a cop comes to the front door in response to a 911 call, someone answers it and refuses to let them in -- and they hear cries for help in the background, the copper does not have to get a warrant to enter a home. There are many exceptions.

And this state supreme court ruling simply says you can't shoot a police officer (or whatever)for trespassing even if entry later proves to be illegal. You may be able to sue him and his jurisdiction, but ya' can't shoot 'im. This is just plain common sense. You don't argue with a copper in the street -- you argue with him in court.
 
Kernel Sanders said:
I don't see how the alternative would be feasible. "Unlawful entry" is something that has to be decided by the courts, not a civilian on the spot. If you think the police are acting improperly you have to seek remedy through the courts, not by assaulting a police officer. I just don't see how it can work otherwise, every asshole who wants to resist arrest could just claim he thought the cops were acting unlawfully.
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So just accept unlawful abuses by government goons and hope you can work it out from jail later, eh? Nice.
 
MrVicchio said:
Where in did I say killing a cop? Jump far Viktyr? I'm talking about the Rights of you, the individual in general, and your on about cop killing.
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And I said that your rights don't matter. If you resist, you will lose. The harder you resist, the harder you will lose. And, unfortunately, the harder you lose the worse you look in court.

There is no possible instance in which trying to prevent a police officer from entering your home ends up anywhere but you hurt.
 
Ikari said:
So just accept unlawful abuses by government goons and hope you can work it out from jail later, eh? Nice.
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I think most law enforcement agencies try to get it right, but, of course nothing's perfect. Surely you can see why the courts would not want to sanction armed resistance to police force. That would only escalate an already bad situation.
 
X Factor said:
I think most law enforcement agencies try to get it right, but, of course nothing's perfect. Surely you can see why the courts would not want to sanction armed resistance to police force. That would only escalate an already bad situation.
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When the government uses force improperly against the rights and liberties of the individual, it is not unreasonable for said individual to resist.
 
spud_meister said:
So a cop can just stroll in and poke around your house without any good reason? Doesn't that violate unreasonable search?
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No - that's not the issue.

The issue is this:

"If you don't feel an officer has a legal right to enter your residence then how do you deal with this? A) physical interaction B) legal reaction."

They're wanting people to pursue option B rather than option A.

People, regardless of the situation, are NOT their own jury or judge - individuals who have created a cause for concern or issue are not IN the position to determine the appropriate course of action against any officer - at all.

If things have been done wrong - then it should be dealt with legally, not with force. . . in which all evidence of said violation is carefully examined by people who are not vested into the situation emotionally (the officers and the civilian individuals)
 
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X Factor said:
You're saying the homeowner should kill the cop?
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if you burst into my house waving a gun, then i haven't seen any badge, i have no idea who you are or what you are after, i have a wife and two little children to protect, and all i see is that you are a mortal threat.


sorry to do it because many of my friends are cops, and i think we as a society don't allow them near enough chance to do their jobs effectively and protect themselves. but you can buy a shirt that reads "police" anywhere.


If you have a warrant, surround the house, come up and knock, and present your identification and your warrant. I will probably seethe quietly, but I'll help you as much as I can to get you off my property and out of my house.

But come in waving a weapon, and one of us is dead.
 
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