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Thread: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    There are different levels of this:

    Reasonable Suspicion: I observe something that leads me to believe a crime MAY have been committed. I can knock on the door, ask questions, observe and listen to see if I can gather more data... I can even ASK if can come in and look around... but I can't just barge in.

    Probable Cause: I observe something that is considered adequate cause to believe a crime HAS been committed. If I see someone enter a house via a broken window, I have probable cause to believe he's committing B and E. If I observe that someone is packing a gun, I have probable cause to check and see if he is doing so legally.

    Probable cause is usually required to enter a home without a warrant. Reasonable suspicion is inadequate.
    Last edited by Goshin; 05-14-11 at 11:02 PM.

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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    There are different levels of this:

    Reasonable Suspicion: I observe something that leads me to believe a crime MAY have been committed. I can knock on the door, ask questions, observe and listen to see if I can gather more data... I can even ASK if can come in and look around... but I can't just barge in.

    Probable Cause: I observe something that is considered adequate cause to believe a crime HAS been committed. If I see someone enter a house via a broken window, I have probable cause to believe he's committing B and E. If I observe that someone is packing a gun, I have probable cause to check and see if he is doing so legally.

    Probable cause is usually required to enter a home without a warrant. Reasonable suspicion is inadequate.
    yep and having argued before the court of appeals on an issue involving a warrantless search you are correct.



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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Somebody should remind those "justices" and "law-enforcement" that this is why we have the Second Amendment.
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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    If police were to forcibly enter my home without a warrant, I would simply dial 911 and report them on the record. If police suspect that I'm harboring a fugitive, or have pot plants in a bedroom, or a meth lab in my basement, and they don't bother with the warrant, then I'm getting a nice settlement at the end of the day, because anything they find is inadmissable. Without a warrant or legitimate probable cause, police must ask for permission to enter your residence. If they fake it... "Say, did you just hear someone scream?" when the cat meows, for example... my settlement will be even fatter!

    For the most part, police do not deliberately conduct themselves in a manner that will get them sued or result in the case being thrown out of court. The problems occur when mistakes happen... SWAT simultaneously yells "Police! Search Warrant!" as the battering ram knocks down the door and a gaggle of riot-clad officers rush into the wrong home in the middle of the night. That has led to serious tragedy when the sleeping homeowner, awakened by the door being broken down, grabs a weapon and rushes out of the bedroom. Somebody is going to die, and it's not likely to be one of the police officers.

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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    A little more from the article;

    *
    This is all great, but it costs YOU lots of money to take the police to court and to pay bail and other related things. So you are injured many times before the police officer is reprimanded (if at all) for disturbing your peace.
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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Do not fight cops in the street. You will never, ever win and even if they're wrong you'll be lucky if they even pay your hospital bills. The only weapon you can beat a cop with is a lawyer.
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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I've never heard of a situatoin in which a person posed as an officer and forced their way into someone's home (this is his argument, there) - it's unrealistic and farfetched to center a hefty argument around such a bizarre and odd situation.

    Lets stay rooted in reality - things taht will actually happen if such things occur.

    What's wrong with someone taking acop to court? A cop who violates the law like that can face getting booted out of the force - at least.
    Police searching for gang of home invaders posing as police - Criminal Defense Lawyer Blog

    http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...ker&id=8043089

    Men posing as police stage home invasion in Pawtucket - Projo 7 to 7 News Blog | Rhode Island news | The Providence Journal

    Police: Home Invaders Posing As Cops Captured - News Story - WSB Atlanta

    Police: Suspects in Missouri City home invasion posed as officers | khou.com Houston\

    That was a 2 minute Google search. It happens far more often than most people realize.
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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    it seems apropos to put this here, as it touches on a number of subjects discussed:

    ...The search warrant and court documents showing what deputies were looking for and seized from Guerena's home have been sealed by a judge and are unavailable to the public.

    Christopher Scileppi, who is representing the Guerena family, said nothing seized from Guerena's home was illegal and that Storie's statements were unsupported by facts and meant to discredit Guerena's character. Scileppi did not comment on the details of the case...

    On Thursday afternoon, the Sheriff's Department declined to comment on what the attorneys said.

    All statements made by Storie on Thursday morning came from the five SWAT officers he is representing, he said.

    The five officers had "no choice but to shoot" when they breached the front door of the house in the 7100 block of South Redwater Drive and saw Guerena holding a rifle, Storie said. The home is on the southwest side, near South Wade and West Los Reales roads....

    Guerena's wife, Vanessa, who was inside the house with their 4-year-old son, has said she did not see or hear lights and sirens and that Guerena thought they were being targeted for a home invasion, which is why her husband grabbed his AR-15 rifle and told her and their son to hide in a closet.

    The raid took place about 9:30 a.m., and Guerena, 26, was asleep after working the graveyard shift at Asarco Mission Mine, Guerena's wife said.

    Storie said that once the SWAT team parked outside the home, the lights and sirens were turned off. An officer banged on the door for about 45 seconds while identifying the team as police, he said.

    After that, five SWAT members broke in the front door and saw Guerena holding a rifle at the end of a long hallway....

    The SWAT officers fired 71 shots, striking Guerena 60 times.

    The search warrant was not directed at any particular person, and Guerena's name was not mentioned, but it was targeting whoever might be inside the residence, Storie said...
    so, if they come in and see you with a weapon, you're dead. they will yell "police", but anyone can yell the word "police"

    how did this guy know that anyone can yell the word police?

    well, reading on:

    ...The man shot and killed by Pima County SWAT officers was linked to a home-invasion crew, the attorney representing the officers said Thursday.

    Attorney Michael Storie said authorities found rifles, handguns, body armor and a portion of a law-enforcement uniform inside the house where Jose Guerena was shot by officers serving a search warrant May 5.
    ..

    The house was targeted as part of an investigation into home invasions and drug rip-offs. The Guerena house was among homes that "were identified as locations where these activities were being carried out from."..

    According to Storie, several days before the shooting undercover officers in an unmarked car drove by Guerena's home to do surveillance, and 10 minutes after they drove by, they were alerted that their license plate had been run through the Motor Vehicle Division by someone they say followed the unmarked vehicle from Guerena's home. That was considered countersurveillance on law enforcement, Storie said...
    so, he knew that people claiming to be police could burst into your house as part of a home invasion..... because he either did so himself or was connected to folks that did.


    and if the woman had been home alone with her child, assumed the same, and threw her child under the bed grabbing the same weapon to try to desperately defend her kids' life?

    she would have 60 holes in her too.
    Last edited by cpwill; 05-21-11 at 08:31 PM.

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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    So let me get this straight

    Take 1

    1. Thug enters my apartment
    2. I grab shot gun and shoot him
    3. My dog attacks him
    4. Call lawyer after I get annoyed with all the screaming
    5. Government thugs do something useful for once and take said thug away
    6. Lawyer takes care of the rest

    Event 2

    1. Government thug enters my home (doesnt identify self just barges in)
    2. Dog attacks
    3. While government thug is attempting to fight over dog, I unload shotgun shell into him
    4. Government thug #2 comes in identifies self as government thug.
    5. Get arrested by government thug #2 and charged with attempted murder
    6. All my belongings are seized, possibly the building as well
    7. God only knows what happens afterward


    Makes perfect sense (rolls eyes), this is what authoritarianism looks like
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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    I don't see how the alternative would be feasible. "Unlawful entry" is something that has to be decided by the courts, not a civilian on the spot. If you think the police are acting improperly you have to seek remedy through the courts, not by assaulting a police officer. I just don't see how it can work otherwise, every asshole who wants to resist arrest could just claim he thought the cops were acting unlawfully.
    Bull****.

    If a cop is abusing his authority in illegally forcing his way into your home, he has no legal protections and the homeowner has ever right to shoot his ass. The cop is, after all, armed with a gun.

    If the Mayor ever gets on a jury in which a citizen defended himself against a thug cop, the citizen won't be found guilty.

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