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Thread: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

  1. #131
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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    "Because they can" is the most ignorant response.
    There is a reason why these officers would go so far to do all this, and it is a hell of alot more complex than "Because we can".
    It is an individual reason, not a "blanket" reason like you just used.
    Ok, now, what I meant by "because they can" was overly simplistic... but bottom line is that if police weren't thinking that they could get away with this corruption (and those officers that ARE corrupt USUALLY do get away with these things).

    Also, even in my lifetime I've seen a marked difference in police of today as opposed to police even 10-15 years ago, back then I would NEVER see a cop that looked like a straight gangster with the mass tattoos and all. You used to be able to ask a cop for directions, now many of them will look at you like scum for asking the question.

    BUT, that's NOT to detract anything from those that are honorably doing what I know is a **** job. An example; A few weeks back I was just off work and having a smoke when apparently I crossed into a no smoking area inadvertently. One officer comes up... this guy had the demeanor of a thug, there's no real way to describe it... but he tells me of the infraction. I accept that I did something wrong and asked him what the specific line was that I could not cross to avoid this issue in the future. He literally puffed his chest at me and put his hand on his gun and repeated himself that I was in violation.

    That's the point where I got cocky cause I knew AT WORST was a 150$ fine that I was facing... so I tell him "great write me the ticket but just tell me what the line I can't cross smoking is so that I don't have to deal with this in the future." Then, an officer comes up that IS clearly an honorable cop, he sees my demeanor and asks what my record was with police... So I tell them, then I ask this guy the question, he answers me so I just turned my back to the first cop and walked away from him.

    All this just to say that I understand the difficulty of the job and I understand there's a variety of factors... but you can tell, often just by their demeanor, if the cop you are dealing with is just doing his job as he sees fit as opposed to the cop that can't wait to start blasting people just cause they got the power.

    There is something specific to this situation that caused these guys to act like this...... just, I can't seem to find that information anywhere because nobody gives a rats ass apparently.
    Ya.... it's cause THOSE specific cops were crooked and they thought they could get away with it... Whatever the reason for it there are corrupt cops out there (like there are corrupt people in virtually all professions), that are criminals because they get the cover and legitimacy of having a badge and a gun.

    Btw, I've been witness to cops taking bribes so that the pot dealers could stay in business... on the bright side, they DID at least clear out the mass of crackheads from the area.

    So, sometimes it's even shades of grey.

    People like to blame a group of individuals personal reasons for becoming corrupt on the entirety maybe? Why find out the reasoning behind it if it takes away from our ability to call all law enforcement "crooked ass pigggzzz"
    No no no... believe me I am making the distinction here, there are some GOOD officers out there... but there are ALSO a good number of them that are little better then criminals looking to find the best way to not get caught.

    The specific reasoning isn't really AS important in the sense that if the police forces themselves are not actively weeding out these corrupt cops (or maybe turning them to paper pushers) then you'll eventually be in a position like most third world countries where the cops shake people down in the same way that the street gangs do, where the good cops quit because they can't be associated with that kind of corruption...

    It's not the first time where the social guardians have become corrupt and then acted against those they are intended to protect.

  2. #132
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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    It's pretty easy for you to forget these facts I presented. The why it was easy was because you ignored them.

    It's really funny, yet sad at the same time, that Amnesty International that the United States has far more people imprisoned, a supposedly free county, then communist China, a totalitarian regime.

    This is a fact since the United States is number one in the world for the most people incarcerated. Got anything to dispute that?

    The more people in prison is a result from more legislation making things illegal.

    Do you realize that there are over 13,000 things that are illegal just under federal law alone?

    More facts for you. Let me know when you have something that can possibly dispute my facts besides your Thin Blue Whine about defending police and government abuse of power.
    Are those facts or just your statements, I can't tell the difference.

    Also, what reason do I have to believe Amnesty International?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  3. #133
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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Because China reveals everyone they have imprisoned....

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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    The specific reasoning isn't really AS important in the sense that if the police forces themselves are not actively weeding out these corrupt cops (or maybe turning them to paper pushers) then you'll eventually be in a position like most third world countries where the cops shake people down in the same way that the street gangs do, where the good cops quit because they can't be associated with that kind of corruption...

    It's not the first time where the social guardians have become corrupt and then acted against those they are intended to protect.
    But thats just the thing... the reasoning behind it is very important. No information was given in regards to the elderly lady in Atlanta shooting incident in regards to the police officers involved obtaining money or other personal gain from any of the falsified methods they obtained the warrants to make this 'drug bust' they were going to make. So, My curiosity leads me to wonder, why go through all the lying and perjury just to make an arrest? Pressure from the Chain of Command? Desire to make a name for yourself? I just don't get it... but those two reasons are the ONLY ones I can think of, and quite honestly, completely NOT worth the risks involved.

    You ever notice how outside of the stories of Homicide cases of the 1970s and 80s.. you don't hear about this sort of corruption outside of Vice and Narcotics work?

    I think that is the main reason why I have already vowed I will NEVER work in such focus areas within law enforcement, such as Vice and Narcotics.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  5. #135
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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Are those facts or just your statements, I can't tell the difference.

    Also, what reason do I have to believe Amnesty International?
    Because they got their numbers directly from the government themselves. It's a documented fact that the United States has the highest prison population in the world.

    According to International Center for Prison Studies: School of Law King's College here is the current prison population worldwide.

    1 United States of America 2,292,133
    2 China 1,620,000


    That's a documented fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    But thats just the thing... the reasoning behind it is very important. No information was given in regards to the elderly lady in Atlanta shooting incident in regards to the police officers involved obtaining money or other personal gain from any of the falsified methods they obtained the warrants to make this 'drug bust' they were going to make. So, My curiosity leads me to wonder, why go through all the lying and perjury just to make an arrest? Pressure from the Chain of Command? Desire to make a name for yourself? I just don't get it... but those two reasons are the ONLY ones I can think of, and quite honestly, completely NOT worth the risks involved.
    Or just these two cops feel themselves above the law / are sociopaths as it is. If that's not the case, then "making a name for yourself" what is the atmosphere these officers work in at the office?

    What I mean is that there's something going on if these people can think that they are making a good name for themselves by acting THAT corrupt.

    Or if this came down the chain of command... Think about what kind of command that must be, in the types of instances that are becoming more and common, it almost seems that, if this is what happened, that the commands were something along the lines of "show these people who is boss around here."

    You ever notice how outside of the stories of Homicide cases of the 1970s and 80s.. you don't hear about this sort of corruption outside of Vice and Narcotics work?
    Narcotics work I've been witness to some of that work a few years ago when I moved to an area I found out was rampant with crack / meth heads.

    I also know a few officers who have told me similar stories, but even then it seems every few weeks/months it comes out about police abusing their power in some form.

    I think that is the main reason why I have already vowed I will NEVER work in such focus areas within law enforcement, such as Vice and Narcotics.
    Narcotics is one of those areas where the money involved alone would serve a large incentive to "make a little on the side"... Without getting into the DOZENS of times that FBI and CIA planes have crashed sometimes with tons of cocaine... The war on drugs is more just war against cartels not paying dues.

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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Or just these two cops feel themselves above the law / are sociopaths as it is. If that's not the case, then "making a name for yourself" what is the atmosphere these officers work in at the office?

    What I mean is that there's something going on if these people can think that they are making a good name for themselves by acting THAT corrupt.
    Here is the thing, as long as the corruption is not caught, then these "hard charging" narcotics officers appear to be people who can get things done, make lots of narcotics arrests, and "make a name" for themselves within the department so they will look very good for future promotions. That is what I was referencing when I said "make a name for themselves." Its the only thing I can think of. And personally, if you have to lie and commit crimes in order to try to obtain a promotion, you are trying WAY TO DAMNED HARD.


    Or if this came down the chain of command... Think about what kind of command that must be, in the types of instances that are becoming more and common, it almost seems that, if this is what happened, that the commands were something along the lines of "show these people who is boss around here."
    Well, when I said pressure from the chain of command, I meant the chain of command was putting alot of pressure on the unit (narcotics unit) to clean up problems in that area and possibly these guys were doing what they thought they needed to do in order to show some production so the chain of command would get off of their backs. Again, entirely unacceptable behavior, as no chain of command should expect officers to lie and commit crimes in order to reduce crime... it just doesn't fit.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Sorry, but you forgot the fourth branch of government which is the people.
    Caine doesn't believe in that branch. Why is it trial by jury of your peers? Jury nullification, it was supposed to be the ultimate check on the government's power. The people are the source of all power and authority wielded by the government. And at any time, should the government prove dangerous with said power and authority, it is always within the legitimate rights and duties of the People to remove that power. By any means.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    If someone kicks down my door, I am automatically going to assume he is a home invader, and I will shoot him graveyard dead. If he turns out to have been a cop, then he should have announced himself by knocking on my door, and yelling "police".
    And that is one of the rightful and just checks on government force and aggression.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Here is the thing, as long as the corruption is not caught, then these "hard charging" narcotics officers appear to be people who can get things done, make lots of narcotics arrests, and "make a name" for themselves within the department so they will look very good for future promotions. That is what I was referencing when I said "make a name for themselves." Its the only thing I can think of.
    That's the other side of the coin as I was describing it... but think about it like this also :

    You got a whole group of officers in various task forces, I mean without getting into in depth details that's at least close enough, right?

    Anyway, you got one guy that's always at the top of his game, and you got another guy that he just never quite catches those same breaks but he still wants to outshine the other guy, so he might go a step further to try and get himself that reputation that will lead to his next promotion. So, he pulls a few shady moves, but then it's STILL not enough so he'll step it up a notch if he's not getting caught...

    It's that ESCALATION of corruption that's more disconcerting to me... and this isn't just cops... this is politicians, business owners, etc, then the actual situation of a cop over reaching his power and say using an interrogation technique that might be construed as torture in order to get information or whatever other example of small corruption.

    The ESPECIALLY dangerous part is when the chief of police becomes corrupt, because then not only will he have greater access to be corrupt, but he will also have an opportunity to select from those that show that they "get things done".

    I also understand the brotherhood you develop with your fellow officers that you do your best to look out for each other... but that too can become a negative in certain conditions.

    And personally, if you have to lie and commit crimes in order to try to obtain a promotion, you are trying WAY TO DAMNED HARD.
    That's why I said that there has to be SOME level of sociopathy going on with some of these people... again, not exclusively police.

    Well, when I said pressure from the chain of command, I meant the chain of command was putting alot of pressure on the unit (narcotics unit) to clean up problems in that area and possibly these guys were doing what they thought they needed to do in order to show some production so the chain of command would get off of their backs. Again, entirely unacceptable behavior, as no chain of command should expect officers to lie and commit crimes in order to reduce crime... it just doesn't fit.
    Most cities have quotas now for things like traffic violations. That alone provides an incentive to over step their bounds.

    But also here, the fact that there's that level of pressure at all... the higher ups hopefully INTEND that their pressure as being like a pep-talk to get everyone motivated could be INTERPRETED to mean that they aren't doing enough and so they start cutting corners to ensure that they show results.

    As a side, tell me, as someone that's in law enforcement, have YOU noticed a change in the officers in the past 5, 10, 15 years (however long you're able to speak for)

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