Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

  1. #11
    Slayer of the DP Newsbot
    danarhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    39,728

    Re: McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Who to believe?

    McCain's flip flops ThinkProgress » John McCain’s 44 Flip-Flops

    The smallish old man needs to retire and spend more time on his stamp collection
    Time to put this lie to bed:

    Khalid Sheik Muhammed (KSM) did not talk, according to the AP, when he was tortured, but rather months later when he was questioned using humane interrogation techniques.

    When asked on “Morning Joe” if KSM had provided information on the courier due to torture, John Brennan, the President’s Counter Terrorism advisor said, “not to my knowledge.” Brennan was later asked on FOX News if KSM and al-Libi had provided the initial information about the courier. “If only it were that simple,” he said.
    In other words, according to Bush's own counter terrorism adviser, torture did not lead to the whereabouts of bin Laden's courier.

    Some will argue that it was only thanks to the waterboarding that KSM and al-Libi were willing to talk at all. This notion is rejected by the more than 75 interrogators, questioners and debriefers with the military, the FBI and the CIA who I have spoken to in depth about this subject since the revelations of abuse at Abu Ghraib. I have yet to speak to a professional interrogator who believes that torture is an effective means of questioning suspected terrorists.
    Consider other high profile captures and kills in the war on terrorism. The former insurgent who fingered Saddam Hussein voluntarily drew his U.S. interrogator a map showing exactly what spider hole the former dictator was hiding in. And the Al Qaeda operative who pointed US forces to Al Zarqawi, the former head of Al Qaeda in Iraq, told his interrogators the name of Zarqawi’s spiritual advisor and what kind of car he drove. (Ultimately coalition forces followed the advisor’s car to Zarqawi.)

    This level of cooperation is unthinkable if torture is used. And it leaves one wondering if we might have found Osama Bin Laden earlier if KSM and al-Libi had been interrogated by the FBI’s subject matter expert or another interrogator committed to using humane techniques from the start.
    From this article.

    But KSM DID do something for the US. He caused a crapload of terror alerts due to conditions that did not even exist, while being tortured.

    From the Red Cross investigation, in PDF, page 37.

    And, once again, I stress the words of Bush's own counter terrorism adviser. The info only came to light months after torture on the subjects was discontinued. But why would Yoo, Gonzales, and other Bush administration figures say otherwise? An attempt to avoid future prosecution for war crimes, I suspect. And don't forget that we convicted and punished Japanese generals after WWII for waterboarding US prisoners of war. Once the truth finally unravels, a few people are going to have a hell of a lot to answer for, and I believe that they know it.

    As for John McCain being, in your words, a smallish man, I find your disrespect of his service to our nation, both as a soldier, and as a public servant, nothing short of absolutely despicable. McCain is a true American hero, who survived 5 and a half years of being tortured, and understands exactly what it is, and is willing to speak out on it. That kind of heroism is something you will never ever understand.
    Last edited by danarhea; 05-12-11 at 08:49 PM.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  2. #12
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Time to put this lie to bed:

    In other words, according to Bush's own counter terrorism adviser, torture did not lead to the whereabouts of bin Laden's courier.



    From this article.

    But KSM DID do something for the US. He caused a crapload of terror alerts due to conditions that did not even exist, while being tortured.

    From the Red Cross investigation, in PDF, page 37.

    And, once again, I stress the words of Bush's own counter terrorism adviser. The info only came to light months after torture on the subjects was discontinued. But why would Yoo, Gonzales, and other Bush administration figures say otherwise? An attempt to avoid future prosecution for war crimes, I suspect. And don't forget that we convicted and punished Japanese generals after WWII for waterboarding US prisoners of war. Once the truth finally unravels, a few people are going to have a hell of a lot to answer for, and I believe that they know it.

    As for John McCain being, in your words, a smallish man, I find that despicable. McCain is a true American hero, something you will never know.
    Hey!! There's no room for the truth in politics!
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #13
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    McCain is a true American hero, who survived 5 and a half years of being tortured, and understands exactly what it is, and is willing to speak out on it. That kind of heroism is something you will never ever understand.
    McCain's as slimy a politician as you're going to find. The issue with McCain is that he doesn't seem to have principals about anything. He's the text book definition of the word "politician" meaning that everything is on the table with the guy. He'll whore any issue out for political expediency. I have no doubt in my mind that he'd sign another AWB if it was politically expedient for him to do so.

    I'll give you that he's been in uniform and bled for America, but thats about it and yeah, if you have to have a liberal democrat in the white house, it might as well be a McCain

  4. #14
    Outer space potato man

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    51,764

    Re: McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

    Despite GOP Claims, Immoral Torture Slowed Down Effort to Find Bin Laden | Civil Liberties | AlterNet

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Alexander, former senior military interrogator
    The debate is skewed at this point. And one reason why is because we don’t know all the details, and secondly, because a lot is being left out of the conversation. And let me talk a little bit about that. One of the things that people aren’t talking about is the fact that one of the people that was confronted with this information that bin Laden had a courier is Skaykh al-Libi, who was held in a CIA secret prison and was tortured and who gave his CIA interrogators the name of the courier as being Maulawi Jan. And the CIA chased down that information and found out that person didn’t exist, that al-Libi had lied. And nobody is talking about the fact that al-Libi caused us to waste resources and time by chasing a false lead because he was tortured.

    ---
    That’s correct. And, you know, when you look at the use of waterboarding and enhanced interrogation techniques in the case of the trail of evidence that leads to Osama bin Laden, what you find is, time and time again, it slows down the chase. In 2003, when we—or '02, when we have Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, we have the person most likely to be able to lead us to bin Laden, and yet we don't get to him until 2011. You know, by any interrogation standard, eight years is a long time to not get information from people, and that’s probably directly related to the fact that he was waterboarded 183 times.

    The other piece of the story that we don’t know yet is we don’t know how the CIA learned the real family name of the courier, who again, his nickname was Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti. And we don’t know how the CIA got his real family name, which really was the key piece of information that led us to be able to monitor phone calls and emails and discover his first name, his full name, which led to us finding him and then him leading us to the compound. So, until we have that information, which we don’t even know if it came from interrogations or if it came from a source, then we really don’t have a complete picture of how we got to bin Laden.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #15
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,277

    Re: McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Thank you, John, for setting the record straight on this issue.

    Article is here.
    Did you always love John McCain?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  6. #16
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Did you always love John McCain?
    All fake conservatives love McCain.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  7. #17
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,277

    Re: McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    All fake conservatives love McCain.
    Dana's reputation is set in concrete. Hahahaha.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  8. #18
    User Nanten Janubi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    20 miles, straight up
    Last Seen
    07-12-11 @ 06:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    120

    Re: McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

    Not sure how someone without an HCS clearance- at the least- would know either way. I do find it odd, though, how strange it is that people say torturing (or even waterboarding, or whatever) is entirely ineffective. It seems as if they, being against something on moral grounds, must also insist that it doesn't work either, as if deep down they don't believe the moral argument is strong enough on its own.
    A history of knowledge will not make us clever for the next time, but wise forever.
    -Jacob Burckhardt.

  9. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Last Seen
    09-24-12 @ 02:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

    The Real John McCain is Back!!

    That is the McCain I would have voted for, a man of integrity that doesn't kowtow to the GOP Fox base.

  10. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Last Seen
    09-24-12 @ 02:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: McCain: Torture did not lead to bin Laden death

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    The little man is right because President Bush didn't see it as torture.

    The thing is it was said just a few days ago that waterboarding was only used on 3 people in Cuba. Who knows what happened in other Countries when the CIA was taking them there for "questioning."
    Hold on to the LIES.

    Push the idea that Rummy and Cheney are liars, out of your mind.

    Watch more Fox.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •