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Thread: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Why is it that burning a flag is perfectly legal but me running around naked is not? Neither really infringes on anyone else's rights and both are offensive to people. I know its a bit immature of a question, but it is legitimate in my mind.

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We do what we want!

    I wasn't really "going after" anyone. But I don't see legitimate purpose in using force against another's free exercise of rights and liberties. It's a free country, and that has consequences including the fact that people will often do things we don't like. And so long as they aren't infringing upon the rights of others, we have to note that while we may not like it and that we can say this or that about it; we have no right to physically do anything about it. This includes running someone off campus. Sure perhaps the student did something offensive; but if your true drive is the preservation and proliferation of our rights and liberties (as is often the case with libertarians) then the rational response, the only one which can live by that ideology, is to allow the individual to perform his action without using force against him.
    I agree for the most part. I would support a counter-protest in protest of that student. Chasing the individual in question would likely have ended up in some sort of physical beating.

    And don't worry - you're one of the cool Libertarian kids in my book Ikari.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Why is it that burning a flag is perfectly legal but me running around naked is not? Neither really infringes on anyone else's rights and both are offensive to people. I know its a bit immature of a question, but it is legitimate in my mind.
    post pics and i'll let you know.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Why is it that burning a flag is perfectly legal but me running around naked is not? Neither really infringes on anyone else's rights and both are offensive to people. I know its a bit immature of a question, but it is legitimate in my mind.
    I think it should be legal. The real reason is Americans are prudes. You could go to a REGULAR beach in France and see some real female fun bags. That being said, I'm not sure if extending this courtesy to every individual would be such a good idea.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Or cute.

    My wife thinks I'm cute.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    Somone burns an American Flag in my presence, I would simply walk over and put it out,
    headline reads "Army vet puts out American flag set afire by Protester"

    if he put his hands on me to stop me,
    headline reads

    "Flag Burner makes one last fatal mistake"
    Oh cool, it's the "I'm a hardass army vet" approach.

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    There is a huge difference in the acts. Burning the Qu'ran equates to an attack on God. You are, essentially, burning God. That isn't my belief, that is clearly stated in Islamic dogma. Burning a flag is not an attack on God. Burning a flag isn't an attack against people, either (at least not from what I understand). It is an attack against an existing establishment or an idea. Likewise, however, burning the Qu'ran isn't an attack against a people, but agains their God...their life force...their very definition of life and how to live it.

    The flag doesn't tell us how to live, guarantee us a spot in heaven or hell, dictate our treatment of the people around us, or provide a moral code. The Qu'ran does. People have only recently (in a grand sense) placed symbolism on a flag (just like they place symbolism on the "don't tread on me" flag, or an eagle, or any other object). And that symbolism isn't universal. The very basis of Islam is that the Qu'ran is directly of God. It is a universally accepted truth amongst all who practice Islam.
    Your arguement is that is ok because the their beliefs are more important than mine?

    The flag is a symbol held sacred by a large number of people. So is the Qu'ran. You can say that the flag represents an idea, so does the Qu'ran. The flag in representative of our country, of the American way of life. The American beliefs such as the freedom of speech that allows idiots like this guy to burn the flag. Your statements are exactly what I was talking about before. You seem to think that attacks against the things that symbolize my beliefs have less value than those of the Muslim faith. Your arguing that the Qu'ran is a universal symbol of people who believe it but the American flag is not.

    You are incredibly wrong in your assumption that the American flag is only recently a symbol of the American way of life. The American flag has been a symbol of patriotism since its inception. Billions have fought for, and millions have died for our flag and the things it represents. You may undervalue its meaning and its symbolism because you cherish the Qu'ran but it doesn't change the fact that burning the American flag is an act of hate against a group of people and their beliefs. Just like burning the Qu'ran is. Burning the Qu'ran is not burning god, it is burning paper.

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Your arguement is that is ok because the their beliefs are more important than mine?

    The flag is a symbol held sacred by a large number of people. So is the Qu'ran. You can say that the flag represents an idea, so does the Qu'ran. The flag in representative of our country, of the American way of life. The American beliefs such as the freedom of speech that allows idiots like this guy to burn the flag. Your statements are exactly what I was talking about before. You seem to think that attacks against the things that symbolize my beliefs have less value than those of the Muslim faith. Your arguing that the Qu'ran is a universal symbol of people who believe it but the American flag is not.

    You are incredibly wrong in your assumption that the American flag is only recently a symbol of the American way of life. The American flag has been a symbol of patriotism since its inception. Billions have fought for, and millions have died for our flag and the things it represents. You may undervalue its meaning and its symbolism because you cherish the Qu'ran but it doesn't change the fact that burning the American flag is an act of hate against a group of people and their beliefs. Just like burning the Qu'ran is. Burning the Qu'ran is not burning god, it is burning paper.
    Islam has existed for approximately 3000 years. The flag has existed for just under 250. In the scheme of things, the enormous symbolism placed on the flag (which almost every country creates, and generally solely as a marker of the land they control) is a relatively new development.

    All I'm doing is seeing both sides of the argument. You have to truly understand Islam to understand how the Qu'ran is completely and utterly different from the flag. I understand in this day and age understanding Islam is difficult, but it would be helpful here if you did.

    To you, burning the Qu'ran is burning paper. To me, burning the Qu'ran is burning paper. To millions and millions of Muslims, you're attacking God.

    ...Obviously, I can't make you understand the difference, and I'm sure it would be pointless to state that all "symbols" are just artifacts, items, ideas that really mean nothing unless you make them mean something...but it wouldn't matter. To you, the flag is more important, and that's fine. To me, the Qu'ran could lead to more dead people than the flag, so I worry about it a little bit more. Doesn't mean I value it more...
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatSandeno View Post
    So because you attend an institute of higher learning you aren't supposed to express your beliefs? Or are you only supposed to have a certain set of beliefs?

    You can read my post several times, TheGreatSandeno, and nowhere will you find that I preferred a suppression of beliefs. I suggested possibly more effective methods.

    Who reads letters to the editor in college? Who even reads the newspaper anymore?
    Indeed. And who can read a posting anymore without misinterpreting what was said?

    The second tried a polite exchange of ideas by reading a statement, he was met with chants of "Go to hell" and had trash thrown at him.

    Well we can't deny them the expression of their beliefs I suppose.

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I'm saying that a Muslim will view the burning of the Qu'ran as an attack against Allah, which is a justification for a call of Jihad against those instigating the attack. I'm not saying I'm for or against burning the Qu'ran, I'm saying that there are things to consider.
    So you should have some courage of your convictions, but not to the point where you might be threatened.

    Muslims rule!

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