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Thread: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    It's hard to compare the two. The flag is a symbol of your birth place. The Qu'ran is a symbol of your entire ideology, life style, religious means of existence. We (Americans) tend to be a bit more practical about symbolic gestures designed to offend. Somebody burns a flag and typically we're reasonable enough to say "wait, that isn't me they're burning in effigy there". A Muslim (especially a radical) isn't likely to make that distinction. .
    Why is it that you see the Qu'ran as a symbol of an ideologly, life style and religious means of existence but you do not see the flag the same way? The American flags DOES represent these same things and more. The fact that so many worthless Americans do not have pride in their country and are not willing to fight for this country or the things we represent does not make it less offensive to the Americans who do have pride. The burning of the Qu'ran is not more offensive than burning an American flag. I can understand being offended or choosing not to be offended by either action. The action is a message of hate against a group of people. Far too many people, especially in America, consider an action of hate against Americans to be acceptable but expect Americans to be tolerant of the rest of the world. If you want to condemn actions of hate be consistent. Otherwise your just a hypocrite.

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    Oh yea, we don't **** around down here. That flag burning **** won't fly in Louisiana. Multiple military bases in our state, combined with a strong sense of national pride (even with bozo-n-chief in office) will ensure that any flag burning attempts that are made public will be met with fierce resistance.
    Yeah cause **** free speech!
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah cause **** free speech!
    LOL I just gotta say, I love it when Libertarians go at it with each other, it's funny to me

    Carry on
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    Oh yea, we don't **** around down here. That flag burning **** won't fly in Louisiana. Multiple military bases in our state, combined with a strong sense of national pride (even with bozo-n-chief in office) will ensure that any flag burning attempts that are made public will be met with fierce resistance.
    Really -they should have gone to Berkely for that.
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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Really -they should have gone to Berkely for that.
    I personally would like nothing more than to smack one of those idiotic code pink bitches upside the head.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    When a crowd shouts over someone and/or chases him away from public space and/or throws things at him to get him to shut up, is that really so much different than simply banning him from speaking to begin with?

    Both actions stem from fear about what the person is saying, and neither seem to demonstrate respect for the right to speak one's mind.

    Now if somebody wants to start an actual debate during the speech, or comment on the speech afterwards, that's one thing. But simply shouting "shut up!" or "boo!" or throwing things until the person leaves is not, IMO, a "fair" or "right" response to someone invoking freedom of speech, and it's not all that different from banning someone from speaking altogether.

    Of course, when a crowd gathers to do these things there is no state action, so it's not so much a constitutional issue as it is just a general social problem.
    Last edited by Cameron; 05-12-11 at 03:38 PM.
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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Why is it that you see the Qu'ran as a symbol of an ideologly, life style and religious means of existence but you do not see the flag the same way? The American flags DOES represent these same things and more. The fact that so many worthless Americans do not have pride in their country and are not willing to fight for this country or the things we represent does not make it less offensive to the Americans who do have pride. The burning of the Qu'ran is not more offensive than burning an American flag. I can understand being offended or choosing not to be offended by either action. The action is a message of hate against a group of people. Far too many people, especially in America, consider an action of hate against Americans to be acceptable but expect Americans to be tolerant of the rest of the world. If you want to condemn actions of hate be consistent. Otherwise your just a hypocrite.
    The flag may represent such to some, and to others it doesn't. Islam teaches that the Qu'ran is a holy artifact. It is an extension of God for them. I don't agree with their views on it, but I understand more why it would insight violence to burn a Qu'ran than I do to burn the U.S. flag. I would prefer that nobody did either, but I'm not going to tell somebody to stop doing either, either. It is their right to do it, however to compare the two is simply impossible. We don't live our lives on the flag. We live our lives on our belief system and (for some) on our pride of homeland. The flag may be a symbol of the homeland to some, but not to all...and perhaps that is the biggest difference.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    The flag may represent such to some, and to others it doesn't. Islam teaches that the Qu'ran is a holy artifact. It is an extension of God for them. I don't agree with their views on it, but I understand more why it would insight violence to burn a Qu'ran than I do to burn the U.S. flag. I would prefer that nobody did either, but I'm not going to tell somebody to stop doing either, either. It is their right to do it, however to compare the two is simply impossible. We don't live our lives on the flag. We live our lives on our belief system and (for some) on our pride of homeland. The flag may be a symbol of the homeland to some, but not to all...and perhaps that is the biggest difference.
    It is not impossible to compare the two. Its the exact same thing. It is a symbolic attack on a group of people. Also throwing out "for some" adds little to your point. "For some" Muslims they dont feel the need to resort to violence over people burning paper. Just like "for some" Americans violence is not justified over burning a flag. Again there is no difference in the acts. An act of hate against a group of people is the same regardless of the group of people.

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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    It is not impossible to compare the two. Its the exact same thing. It is a symbolic attack on a group of people. Also throwing out "for some" adds little to your point. "For some" Muslims they dont feel the need to resort to violence over people burning paper. Just like "for some" Americans violence is not justified over burning a flag. Again there is no difference in the acts. An act of hate against a group of people is the same regardless of the group of people.
    There is a huge difference in the acts. Burning the Qu'ran equates to an attack on God. You are, essentially, burning God. That isn't my belief, that is clearly stated in Islamic dogma. Burning a flag is not an attack on God. Burning a flag isn't an attack against people, either (at least not from what I understand). It is an attack against an existing establishment or an idea. Likewise, however, burning the Qu'ran isn't an attack against a people, but agains their God...their life force...their very definition of life and how to live it.

    The flag doesn't tell us how to live, guarantee us a spot in heaven or hell, dictate our treatment of the people around us, or provide a moral code. The Qu'ran does. People have only recently (in a grand sense) placed symbolism on a flag (just like they place symbolism on the "don't tread on me" flag, or an eagle, or any other object). And that symbolism isn't universal. The very basis of Islam is that the Qu'ran is directly of God. It is a universally accepted truth amongst all who practice Islam.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    LOL I just gotta say, I love it when Libertarians go at it with each other, it's funny to me

    Carry on
    We do what we want!

    I wasn't really "going after" anyone. But I don't see legitimate purpose in using force against another's free exercise of rights and liberties. It's a free country, and that has consequences including the fact that people will often do things we don't like. And so long as they aren't infringing upon the rights of others, we have to note that while we may not like it and that we can say this or that about it; we have no right to physically do anything about it. This includes running someone off campus. Sure perhaps the student did something offensive; but if your true drive is the preservation and proliferation of our rights and liberties (as is often the case with libertarians) then the rational response, the only one which can live by that ideology, is to allow the individual to perform his action without using force against him.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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