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Angry Mob Chases Would-Be Flag Burner Off LSU Campus

tessaesque said:
I'm not saying I like the idea of burning the flag, but based on the permissions granted to douche bag #2, I would have to assume that douche bag #1s arrest was tied to other actions than just the fact that he was burning the flag.
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tessaesque said:
I'd like to point out that for a Muslim, attacking or harming the Qu'ran is a far larger offense than attacking a Muslim. It does nothing but religiously justify their calls for jihad against the perpetrater (pretty much any white Christian, in that case).
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On one hand you're not saying anything against flag burning, and on the other hand you're saying burning a Quran justifies a call for jihad. Whose side are you on?
 
American said:
On one hand you're not saying anything against flag burning, and on the other hand you're saying burning a Quran justifies a call for jihad. Whose side are you on?
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I'm saying that a Muslim will view the burning of the Qu'ran as an attack against Allah, which is a justification for a call of Jihad against those instigating the attack. I'm not saying I'm for or against burning the Qu'ran, I'm saying that there are things to consider.
 
tessaesque said:
I'm saying that a Muslim will view the burning of the Qu'ran as an attack against Allah, which is a justification for a call of Jihad against those instigating the attack. I'm not saying I'm for or against burning the Qu'ran, I'm saying that there are things to consider.
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The mother or children of a soldier that died defending the country might take offense to a flag burning. Im saying there are things to consider.
 
StillBallin75 said:
My idea of a successful troll is someone who is actually funny.
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Or cute.

troll-doll.jpg
 
VanceMack said:
The mother or children of a soldier that died defending the country might take offense to a flag burning. Im saying there are things to consider.
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It's hard to compare the two. The flag is a symbol of your birth place. The Qu'ran is a symbol of your entire ideology, life style, religious means of existence. We (Americans) tend to be a bit more practical about symbolic gestures designed to offend. Somebody burns a flag and typically we're reasonable enough to say "wait, that isn't me they're burning in effigy there". A Muslim (especially a radical) isn't likely to make that distinction.

We don't have to respond to the idiocy of others, and they have every right to be an idiot. But if what you're doing is likely to cause physical harm to other people, it should be considered. Burning a Qu'ran could lead to physical harm against white christians world-wide. Burning the flag isn't likely to lead to any physical harm to anybody (unless some idiot punches the guy burning the flag).
 
tessaesque said:
It's hard to compare the two. The flag is a symbol of your birth place. The Qu'ran is a symbol of your entire ideology, life style, religious means of existence. We (Americans) tend to be a bit more practical about symbolic gestures designed to offend. Somebody burns a flag and typically we're reasonable enough to say "wait, that isn't me they're burning in effigy there". A Muslim (especially a radical) isn't likely to make that distinction.

We don't have to respond to the idiocy of others, and they have every right to be an idiot. But if what you're doing is likely to cause physical harm to other people, it should be considered. Burning a Qu'ran could lead to physical harm against white christians world-wide. Burning the flag isn't likely to lead to any physical harm to anybody (unless some idiot punches the guy burning the flag).
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Not hard if you are the parent of a child who has died in the service and who had been given, as the most sacred token of respect, a flag flown in that soldiers honor over the nations capital. Not hard if it was your partner. Not hard if you were a child who lost a father or mother. Its all a matter of perspective. to some the flag means nothing...it is merely a piece of cloth. To some it symbolizes all that is good and right. To some it is personal. Its not a little amazing to me that you so easily draw up battle lines for defense of a Quran burning while so easily discounting the burning of an Aemrican flag.
 
TheGreatSandeno said:
And the throwing of bottles and trash?
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Somone burns an American Flag in my presence, I would simply walk over and put it out,
headline reads "Army vet puts out American flag set afire by Protester"

if he put his hands on me to stop me,
headline reads

"Flag Burner makes one last fatal mistake"
 
tessaesque said:
It's hard to compare the two. The flag is a symbol of your birth place. The Qu'ran is a symbol of your entire ideology, life style, religious means of existence. We (Americans) tend to be a bit more practical about symbolic gestures designed to offend. Somebody burns a flag and typically we're reasonable enough to say "wait, that isn't me they're burning in effigy there". A Muslim (especially a radical) isn't likely to make that distinction. .
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Why is it that you see the Qu'ran as a symbol of an ideologly, life style and religious means of existence but you do not see the flag the same way? The American flags DOES represent these same things and more. The fact that so many worthless Americans do not have pride in their country and are not willing to fight for this country or the things we represent does not make it less offensive to the Americans who do have pride. The burning of the Qu'ran is not more offensive than burning an American flag. I can understand being offended or choosing not to be offended by either action. The action is a message of hate against a group of people. Far too many people, especially in America, consider an action of hate against Americans to be acceptable but expect Americans to be tolerant of the rest of the world. If you want to condemn actions of hate be consistent. Otherwise your just a hypocrite.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
Oh yea, we don't **** around down here. That flag burning **** won't fly in Louisiana. Multiple military bases in our state, combined with a strong sense of national pride (even with bozo-n-chief in office) will ensure that any flag burning attempts that are made public will be met with fierce resistance.
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Yeah cause **** free speech!
 
dontworrybehappy said:
Oh yea, we don't **** around down here. That flag burning **** won't fly in Louisiana. Multiple military bases in our state, combined with a strong sense of national pride (even with bozo-n-chief in office) will ensure that any flag burning attempts that are made public will be met with fierce resistance.
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Really -they should have gone to Berkely for that.
 
When a crowd shouts over someone and/or chases him away from public space and/or throws things at him to get him to shut up, is that really so much different than simply banning him from speaking to begin with?

Both actions stem from fear about what the person is saying, and neither seem to demonstrate respect for the right to speak one's mind.

Now if somebody wants to start an actual debate during the speech, or comment on the speech afterwards, that's one thing. But simply shouting "shut up!" or "boo!" or throwing things until the person leaves is not, IMO, a "fair" or "right" response to someone invoking freedom of speech, and it's not all that different from banning someone from speaking altogether.

Of course, when a crowd gathers to do these things there is no state action, so it's not so much a constitutional issue as it is just a general social problem.
 
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muciti said:
Why is it that you see the Qu'ran as a symbol of an ideologly, life style and religious means of existence but you do not see the flag the same way? The American flags DOES represent these same things and more. The fact that so many worthless Americans do not have pride in their country and are not willing to fight for this country or the things we represent does not make it less offensive to the Americans who do have pride. The burning of the Qu'ran is not more offensive than burning an American flag. I can understand being offended or choosing not to be offended by either action. The action is a message of hate against a group of people. Far too many people, especially in America, consider an action of hate against Americans to be acceptable but expect Americans to be tolerant of the rest of the world. If you want to condemn actions of hate be consistent. Otherwise your just a hypocrite.
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The flag may represent such to some, and to others it doesn't. Islam teaches that the Qu'ran is a holy artifact. It is an extension of God for them. I don't agree with their views on it, but I understand more why it would insight violence to burn a Qu'ran than I do to burn the U.S. flag. I would prefer that nobody did either, but I'm not going to tell somebody to stop doing either, either. It is their right to do it, however to compare the two is simply impossible. We don't live our lives on the flag. We live our lives on our belief system and (for some) on our pride of homeland. The flag may be a symbol of the homeland to some, but not to all...and perhaps that is the biggest difference.
 
tessaesque said:
The flag may represent such to some, and to others it doesn't. Islam teaches that the Qu'ran is a holy artifact. It is an extension of God for them. I don't agree with their views on it, but I understand more why it would insight violence to burn a Qu'ran than I do to burn the U.S. flag. I would prefer that nobody did either, but I'm not going to tell somebody to stop doing either, either. It is their right to do it, however to compare the two is simply impossible. We don't live our lives on the flag. We live our lives on our belief system and (for some) on our pride of homeland. The flag may be a symbol of the homeland to some, but not to all...and perhaps that is the biggest difference.
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It is not impossible to compare the two. Its the exact same thing. It is a symbolic attack on a group of people. Also throwing out "for some" adds little to your point. "For some" Muslims they dont feel the need to resort to violence over people burning paper. Just like "for some" Americans violence is not justified over burning a flag. Again there is no difference in the acts. An act of hate against a group of people is the same regardless of the group of people.
 
muciti said:
It is not impossible to compare the two. Its the exact same thing. It is a symbolic attack on a group of people. Also throwing out "for some" adds little to your point. "For some" Muslims they dont feel the need to resort to violence over people burning paper. Just like "for some" Americans violence is not justified over burning a flag. Again there is no difference in the acts. An act of hate against a group of people is the same regardless of the group of people.
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There is a huge difference in the acts. Burning the Qu'ran equates to an attack on God. You are, essentially, burning God. That isn't my belief, that is clearly stated in Islamic dogma. Burning a flag is not an attack on God. Burning a flag isn't an attack against people, either (at least not from what I understand). It is an attack against an existing establishment or an idea. Likewise, however, burning the Qu'ran isn't an attack against a people, but agains their God...their life force...their very definition of life and how to live it.

The flag doesn't tell us how to live, guarantee us a spot in heaven or hell, dictate our treatment of the people around us, or provide a moral code. The Qu'ran does. People have only recently (in a grand sense) placed symbolism on a flag (just like they place symbolism on the "don't tread on me" flag, or an eagle, or any other object). And that symbolism isn't universal. The very basis of Islam is that the Qu'ran is directly of God. It is a universally accepted truth amongst all who practice Islam.
 
StillBallin75 said:
LOL I just gotta say, I love it when Libertarians go at it with each other, it's funny to me :D

Carry on
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We do what we want!

I wasn't really "going after" anyone. But I don't see legitimate purpose in using force against another's free exercise of rights and liberties. It's a free country, and that has consequences including the fact that people will often do things we don't like. And so long as they aren't infringing upon the rights of others, we have to note that while we may not like it and that we can say this or that about it; we have no right to physically do anything about it. This includes running someone off campus. Sure perhaps the student did something offensive; but if your true drive is the preservation and proliferation of our rights and liberties (as is often the case with libertarians) then the rational response, the only one which can live by that ideology, is to allow the individual to perform his action without using force against him.
 
Why is it that burning a flag is perfectly legal but me running around naked is not? Neither really infringes on anyone else's rights and both are offensive to people. I know its a bit immature of a question, but it is legitimate in my mind.
 
Ikari said:
We do what we want!

I wasn't really "going after" anyone. But I don't see legitimate purpose in using force against another's free exercise of rights and liberties. It's a free country, and that has consequences including the fact that people will often do things we don't like. And so long as they aren't infringing upon the rights of others, we have to note that while we may not like it and that we can say this or that about it; we have no right to physically do anything about it. This includes running someone off campus. Sure perhaps the student did something offensive; but if your true drive is the preservation and proliferation of our rights and liberties (as is often the case with libertarians) then the rational response, the only one which can live by that ideology, is to allow the individual to perform his action without using force against him.
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I agree for the most part. I would support a counter-protest in protest of that student. Chasing the individual in question would likely have ended up in some sort of physical beating.

And don't worry - you're one of the cool Libertarian kids in my book Ikari.
 
muciti said:
Why is it that burning a flag is perfectly legal but me running around naked is not? Neither really infringes on anyone else's rights and both are offensive to people. I know its a bit immature of a question, but it is legitimate in my mind.
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post pics and i'll let you know.
 
muciti said:
Why is it that burning a flag is perfectly legal but me running around naked is not? Neither really infringes on anyone else's rights and both are offensive to people. I know its a bit immature of a question, but it is legitimate in my mind.
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I think it should be legal. The real reason is Americans are prudes. You could go to a REGULAR beach in France and see some real female fun bags. That being said, I'm not sure if extending this courtesy to every individual would be such a good idea.
 
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