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Thread: GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved

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    Re: GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved

    either way, there appears to be way too many kidnappings in phoenix

    meanwhile, how's it all playing politically?

    President Barack Obama headed to Texas Tuesday toting a pledge to jump-start work on a comprehensive immigration bill — a long-awaited, never-attained goal of a Hispanic community that is crucial to Obama’s hopes of winning key southwestern states in 2012.

    Are they cheering his newfound commitment to the goal? Hardly.

    Many top Hispanic activists say Obama’s commitment to a bill is welcomed, but too little, too late, and they’d rather he put just as much effort into actions he can do with the stroke of his pen — such as slowing the deportations of certain illegal immigrants. “We all understand the importance of the legislative process and that we need a bipartisan bill in the long run, but that will take a long time and given the gridlock in Washington, has an uncertain payoff,” Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.) said Monday. “Immigrant communities need help now, our system is broken now, and the president can do something about it now.”

    Obama’s speech in El Paso, Texas, is the centerpiece of the president’s latest push for a reform bill, but he’s battling deep skepticism among those most likely to appreciate the renewed effort, which has involved three White House meetings in the past three weeks and multiple mentions by the president of the need for reform. When Obama summoned more than 50 heavy hitters in politics, business and law enforcement to the White House last month to enlist their help on the bill, they surprised him by insisting that Obama needed to do more with his executive power to slow the deportations of illegal immigrants such as college students.

    The disconnect between Obama and many in the State Dining Room points up the president’s challenge.

    Not only is Obama resisting requests to use his executive power, but there also is no evidence the administration has a legislative strategy to pass a bill through Congress. That has left many to question Obama’s motives: Is he really serious this time, or is he just checking a political box ahead of the 2012 election?
    Obama's immigration speech comes amid calls for executive action - Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com

    guiterrez is the most powerful hispanic voice in washington, he was a major player in the health care wars, holding out for coverage for all hispanics, regardless of status

    if guiterrez and raul grijalva and silvestre reyes, et al, are expecting anything more from their campaigner in chief than great and excellent speeches, well...

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    Re: GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Give it a break with the "kidnap capital" thing, Councilman. It's just plain not true.

    http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...-capital-worl/
    just plain would indicate you have plain facts to prove it. but the link doesn't show any facts, it simply finds the claim unbelievable and states such an OPINION. that is the worst debunking link this forum has ever been a party to. congrats.

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    Re: GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    just plain would indicate you have plain facts to prove it. but the link doesn't show any facts, it simply finds the claim unbelievable and states such an OPINION. that is the worst debunking link this forum has ever been a party to. congrats.
    Apparently you failed to read through the whole thing:

    Scott Stewart, vice president of tactical intelligence for Stratfor, an Austin-based global intelligence company, separately chimed in: "According to our analysts, there is no way that Phoenix is the No. 2 city in the world for kidnapping and there are significantly more kidnappings in many other cities throughout Latin America," he said. "San Salvador, Guatemala City, Bogota as well as several cities in Mexico certainly have higher kidnapping rates than Phoenix."
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Apparently you failed to read through the whole thing:
    some guy claiming something is a fact now? so we have a bunch of media outlets claiming one thing, and Scott Stewart claiming something else - and niether have anything verifiable to show us to back up those claims.. is that the plain old truth you speak of? pretty pathetic!

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    Re: GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Of course, they are only saying this cause Obama is black.
    Oh hey, it's the race card...card. That never gets old!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    http://www.ikvpaxchristi.nl/files/Do...Opmaak%201.pdf

    Worldwide kidnapping league table 2006
    Estimate of the absolute number of kidnaps

    1. Mexico
    2. Iraq
    3. India
    4. South Africa
    5. Brazil
    6. Pakistan
    7. Ecuador
    8. Venezuela
    9. Colombia
    10. Bangladesh
    11. Nigeria
    12. Haiti
    13. Afghanistan

    Worldwide kidnapping league table 2006
    Estimated number of kidnaps per capita of the
    population

    1. Iraq
    2. Mexico
    3. The Chechen Republic
    4. Ecuador
    5. Brazil
    6. Haiti
    7. South Africa
    8. Trinidad & Tobago
    9. Venezuela
    10. Colombia
    First, those numbers are from 2006, not 2008.

    Second, wtf is IKV Pax Christi, and why should we accept their word on the numbers involved?

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    Re: GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    some guy claiming something is a fact now? so we have a bunch of media outlets claiming one thing, and Scott Stewart claiming something else - and niether have anything verifiable to show us to back up those claims.. is that the plain old truth you speak of? pretty pathetic!
    The difference is one side has research to back it up, whereas the other side can't even tell us where their figure came from. If you can show me a source that shows how exactly the No.2 Kidnapping Capital of the World figure was reached, I'd like to see it.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    some guy claiming something is a fact now? so we have a bunch of media outlets claiming one thing, and Scott Stewart claiming something else - and niether have anything verifiable to show us to back up those claims.. is that the plain old truth you speak of? pretty pathetic!
    I mentioned that both his numbers, and ours, were based on stories with no real verifiable sources... and in doing so conceded we 'could' be wrong. However, that also means he could be wrong. Haven't seen a concession to that yet though.

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    Re: GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    The difference is one side has research to back it up, whereas the other side can't even tell us where their figure came from. If you can show me a source that shows how exactly the No.2 Kidnapping Capital of the World figure was reached, I'd like to see it.
    you've SEEN this research? Or are you accepting their word?

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    Re: GOP Disputes Obama's Claim That Border Security Has Improved

    In other words -- Republicans countered Obama's talking points with their own...

    Breaking News??

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