• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

You may have been lucky so far. We'll see as it becomes more wide spread.

The same thing was said of concealed carry in general. There are now 40 Right-to-carry states in the country, with over 2/3 of the population of the country residing in those states, yet the ungrounded fears of the anti-gun crowd never came to fruition. At the very least, there is no evidence that the crime rates in any of those states increased with the sudden advent of armed citizenry.

ccwmap.gif


Actually, I saying the school should decide. And government whould allow it. Schools appose it as much as anyone.

The schools in Colorado that Ikari is referring to all make their own policies allowing guns on their campuses. Clearly they don’t “oppose it as much as anyone.” ;)
 
College kids can barely handle a beer let alone a gun.

Depends on the kid.

College professors on the other hand, being so liberal probably won't put bullets in it.

My military history professor is an uber-lib. He's also an eagle scout and goes to the range all the time.
 
I would agree with that.

I'll help you out a little...

To all gun owners - Teachers and students have the right to a safe environment in which to learn, in this case I think it is up to the state to provide it.

And arming teachers/students will not address the root problem of these crazy ****ers any more than searching little old ladies arses at airports addresses the issue of 9-11.

Crazy people and terrorists need to be dealt with, and not by making the school an armed FOB. I think we should start profiling and put some people in the ground. And the news needs to quit making celebrities out of these crazy bastards

The headline should be no more than "Un-named crazy ****er shot dead by Boo Boo. Now for the weather."

Is that ok?
 
I understand your concern...

Arming teachers/students is just putting a band-aid on all the moral failures of our country. Maybe we should concentrate on not needing the guns anymore. Do we really want to send the message to our kids that you have to have a gun to be safe, even at school?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this what you think?

We'd all love a peaceful, free Utopia without violence. We also all know that's not a possibility, so we prepare ourselves as best we can to deal with the world we live in.

I'll help you out a little...

To all gun owners - Teachers and students have the right to a safe environment in which to learn, in this case I think it is up to the state to provide it.

Is it so difficult to understand that you're denying the very thing you're seeking to create by banning legal guns from a campus. Teachers and students DO want a safe enviroment and they should not have to be disarmed just because there's a sign saying that guns aren't allowed. For the millionth time, a responsibly carried gun is not a danger to anyone, except those who would seek to harm the carrier. (see my sig)
 
Last edited:
The schools in Colorado that Ikari is referring to all make their own policies allowing guns on their campuses. Clearly they don’t “oppose it as much as anyone.” ;)

Are you sure? Didn't the University of Colorado decide to ban guns on campus in 1994? Wasn't their decision one to ban guns? I haven't investigated the state completely, but my understanding is that others based their decisions on court rulings against the University. I suspect more court rulings will come in the future.

As for concelled weapons in general, I think schools are different, and thus deserve a different ruling.
 
I'm taking a rifle to class next fall just to piss off the anti-gun folk. This is ridiculous.
 
We took a vote here and all agreed we knew professors who shuld never touch a gun. And their politics wasn't even discussed. ;)

Interesting; I assume that you just "knew" the professors, never having actually attended a class, for if you had, you probably would have failed considering your spelling.
 
Interesting; I assume that you just "knew" the professors, never having actually attended a class, for if you had, you probably would have failed considering your spelling.

More a poor typist. Often sloppy here. Which doesn't bother me at all. ;)
 
You may have been lucky so far. We'll see as it becomes more wide spread.

Over the entire State of Colorado is not enough, huh? The thing that really gets me is that you make a base, statistical basis on why it shouldn't be allowed. These are generalized stats aggregated over the populace. So it doesn't matter if it's just Colorado or if it's the whole of the United States. If these are true probabilities for the system, then that's that. Thus if what you say is correct, given the number of students over the decades they have been allowed to carry weapons on Colorado Universities; we would have seen multiple cases of accidents, mishandlings, etc. Colorado isn't some po-dunk little backwards water state with 15 people in it. Every semester 10's of thousands of students come through each of our Universities. Over decades, how many students is that? Why then have we not seen a single incident of what you claim would happen if students were allowed to bring guns? Could we be "lucky", maybe but it's a lot lower probability then say, you being wrong with the dynamics of this system. Perhaps it is I who is right on this matter, that allowing guns in school is actually a null case and will have no real affect on crime or lead to a more or less dangerous campus.

But you don't even want to consider that. You want to say "you're lucky" and "well I think" blah blah blah. It didn't even cross your mind that maybe Colorado isn't as backwoods as you think it is, that we've had A LOT of students come through our university structure over the decades, that this has been allowed, that it produced no effect which is why you generally will not find news articles in it because it in fact produces no net affect and thus no news.

I have, with what numbers we have. You have suggested we have other numbers, but have presented none that I'm aware of.

Look it up. If what you say about these adults, their brain development, blah blah blah is true; you can certainly find news and data about students being accidently shot on campus in Colorado or some form of wild west shoot out in a free speech center. What does the lack of news tell you?

Actually, I saying the school should decide. And government whould allow it. Schools appose it as much as anyone.

Biased as much as anyone holding a position I would say.

Should the students or reality have any say in the matter?
 
Speaking as a 5th generation native Texan I really think our State Congress has bigger issues to deal with than this.

Like our 20 billion dollar budget gap.
 
Are you sure? Didn't the University of Colorado decide to ban guns on campus in 1994? Wasn't their decision one to ban guns? I haven't investigated the state completely, but my understanding is that others based their decisions on court rulings against the University. I suspect more court rulings will come in the future.

As for concelled weapons in general, I think schools are different, and thus deserve a different ruling.

Yes and no...

Regent Policy for Universities in Colorado prohibits guns anywhere on campus to include parking lots.
State colleges can have their own policies so you will need to check with each individual college.



http://shr.elpasoco.com/NR/rdonlyres/F76D99DA-0F2A-47A4-BA1B-B5FAFC289C5E/0/FAQHandout022310.pdf?
 
Last edited:
I'm sorry you don't like that the stats don't back you. I understand, which is why pro gun folks have to resort to trickery to boost their numbers. But, the fact is you are more likely to shoot yourself or someone close to you than a criminal statisitcally.

:coffeepap

where the scum in the VPC fail is how they frame the issue

they assume that the only beneficial use of a gun is "shooting" a criminal" and they compare accidental shootings with shooting criminals. they also count a battered wife shooting an assaulting spouse as "someone close to you" but the fact remains. the vast majority of useful instances of a gun saving some one does NOT INVOLVE shooting the criminal

If someone breaks into my house and I detain him at gun point or even scare him off the gun has protected me but the VPC asswipes don't count that. In the VAST MAJORITY OF CASES, a deterrence is not reported by the police as a "gun incident


the fact is almost every retired cop, DA and Judge owns a gun ought to tell you something
 
Is it so difficult to understand that you're denying the very thing you're seeking to create by banning legal guns from a campus. Teachers and students DO want a safe enviroment and they should not have to be disarmed just because there's a sign saying that guns aren't allowed. For the millionth time, a responsibly carried gun is not a danger to anyone, except those who would seek to harm the carrier. (see my sig)

The CCW training argument doesn't sway me. I see too many jackasses with a CCW that should not be allowed to own a Super Soaker, much less CARRY a LOADED gun.

You can't learn to shoot discriminately across a room full of screaming kids while under fire at a 2 week course and one re-qual a year.
 
The CCW training argument doesn't sway me. I see too many jackasses with a CCW that should not be allowed to own a Super Soaker, much less CARRY a LOADED gun.

You can't learn to shoot discriminately across a room full of screaming kids while under fire at a 2 week course and one re-qual a year.

Anecdotes and hyperbole are poor arguments to make. The evidence doesn't back you up...and I never used the term "CCW training" in my post.
 
It's about time. I don't know how many times I sat in class thinking to myself, "I could really use a gun right now".
With any luck, you never will - because if you ever do, and you don't have one, you're in big trouble.
 
Yeah, this with guns would be totally awesome...

huge-beer-bong.jpg

:roll::roll::doh:doh
Amazingly silly post.

Anyone in this picture who was of a mind to carry a gun on campus is likely to do so regardless of any law allowing him to or prohibiting same.
See, they are -obviously- law abiding citizens.

And so, the law will have no effect on these peopel or anyone like them.
 
Fort Collins is an open carry city. God I love my State. If we can just get Vermont style gun laws; it would be perfect. Well except for all the Texans and Californians who keep coming up here, trying to wreck up the place. Wish they'd just stay home.

True enough. I am in Colorado and every other person here is from California or Texas.
 
Anecdotes and hyperbole are poor arguments to make. The evidence doesn't back you up...and I never used the term "CCW training" in my post.

Then on with it....;)

Do you think teachers/students should be given "real" instruction by local PDs or in places that offered realistic supplemental training to students at mil/LEO discount prices?
 
The CCW training argument doesn't sway me. I see too many jackasses with a CCW that should not be allowed to own a Super Soaker, much less CARRY a LOADED gun.

You can't learn to shoot discriminately across a room full of screaming kids while under fire at a 2 week course and one re-qual a year.

that is a good argument to disarm cops
 
There are no "minor" incidents with guns. No whoops. And very rarely is it the dumbass that gets hurt.
 
Then on with it....;)

Do you think teachers/students should be given "real" instruction by local PDs or in places that offered realistic supplemental training to students at mil/LEO discount prices?

I think people should be given as much instruction as they wish to have. There is no law currently limiting the amount of firearms training classes an individual can take. It’s the individual's own responsibility to reach a level of competence that they feel is appropriate.

Really, though, the anti-gun crowd tries to make gun safety seem like some mysterious, arcane art, when in reality, it all can be condensed down in to one simple rule. Treat every gun as though it’s loaded. That's all there is to it. 99% of gun negligence can be averted by following that one simple rule. I know there are other rules that the NRA will preach as well, but really, as long as you believe that every gun is loaded and ready to fire, you’ll be doing all the right things with it anyway. (i.e. Not pointing it at people, not pulling the trigger, making sure it is secure, etc)

There are no "minor" incidents with guns. No whoops. And very rarely is it the dumbass that gets hurt.

Spoken like someone who has no experience with guns. Again, your tendency toward hyperbole is impressive. Yes, guns have the ability to cause serious or even fatal injury, but to say there is no such thing as a minor incident is pants-on head retarded.

Example: Several weeks ago I had just returned from pheasant hunting and was cleaning my Remington M11 before putting it away. Now, the gun was unloaded, the barrel was completely removed from the receiver and I was running a cleaning patch through the bore with a two foot cleaning rod, from the front of the bore back toward the rear. My cleaning patch was wadded and I encountered some resistance in the choke at the front of the barrel. When I pushed harder, the patch came free and the cleaning rod went all the way down the barrel a bit…uh…rapidly. My thumb, on the handle of the cleaning rod was driven into the lip of the barrel and I got a nasty blood blister under the thumbnail for my trouble. In this case, I'm the dumbass that got hurt (should have trimmed my patch smaller. :) ) It hurt like hell, I swore a bit, but do you really believe my life was in any danger? Would you not consider this a “minor” incident?
 
Last edited:
Over the entire State of Colorado is not enough, huh? The thing that really gets me is that you make a base, statistical basis on why it shouldn't be allowed. These are generalized stats aggregated over the populace. So it doesn't matter if it's just Colorado or if it's the whole of the United States. If these are true probabilities for the system, then that's that. Thus if what you say is correct, given the number of students over the decades they have been allowed to carry weapons on Colorado Universities; we would have seen multiple cases of accidents, mishandlings, etc. Colorado isn't some po-dunk little backwards water state with 15 people in it. Every semester 10's of thousands of students come through each of our Universities. Over decades, how many students is that? Why then have we not seen a single incident of what you claim would happen if students were allowed to bring guns? Could we be "lucky", maybe but it's a lot lower probability then say, you being wrong with the dynamics of this system. Perhaps it is I who is right on this matter, that allowing guns in school is actually a null case and will have no real affect on crime or lead to a more or less dangerous campus.

But you don't even want to consider that. You want to say "you're lucky" and "well I think" blah blah blah. It didn't even cross your mind that maybe Colorado isn't as backwoods as you think it is, that we've had A LOT of students come through our university structure over the decades, that this has been allowed, that it produced no effect which is why you generally will not find news articles in it because it in fact produces no net affect and thus no news.

I admit, I see it as a no brainer. Not something that requires much research. But no, Colorado, the entire state, is not enough. It is at the bottom of the list as to where I would expect trouble. Dosen't mean it won't happen one day, but I see Chicago, New York, Dallas, Atlanta, as places more likely to see problmes. Larger urban areas.

And yes, it is early yet. It takes time for these things to be properly investigated. So there is not likley to be much on it YET.


Look it up. If what you say about these adults, their brain development, blah blah blah is true; you can certainly find news and data about students being accidently shot on campus in Colorado or some form of wild west shoot out in a free speech center. What does the lack of news tell you?

Not much. A search of students accidentally shooting themselves does produce results. How about you look?


Should the students or reality have any say in the matter?

Students don't own, run or hold liability at the school. Nor do they really face much of any kind of saftey concerns that would warrant having a gun.
 
Back
Top Bottom