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Thread: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

  1. #431
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    QUOTE=Boo Radley;1059492500]

    ...and you proved that if a family member wants to assassinate you without any provocation, you likely can't stop them. However, this is not an accurate scenario for demonstrating self-defense because the bad guy rarely knows where you will be at a given time, in order to set up an ambush like you likely did and they usually don't open fire for no reason, (the goal of most violent crimes being to draw as little attention to the bad guy as possible.) To complicate matters further, maybe your family member has terrible situational awareness. Your one anecdotal story (which you're tried to pass off as proof before) does absolutely nothing to prove the point that you think you're making.
    Not just a fimaly member, but any one. And I don't have to know. Observation and waiting, or just taking advantage of opportunity is all one needs. The person protecting him or her self will never know as much as the person going for them. Unless you have the gun pulled and ready to fire all the time, the advantage is with the criminal.

    Denying me carrying my gun anywhere is denying me having a gun, period. You don't get to pick when and where I exercise my Second Amendment right, just like I can't choose when and where you exercise your First Amendment right. This really is not complicated, Boo. Stop trying to make it seem that way.
    Hyperbole much? There ahve always been restrictions as to where. Nothing new about this in the slightest. Nor is it a violation of the Constitution. Some regulation has always been allowed, including limiting where you carry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    Just to shoot holes in your argument, pun intended, the New England states allow conceal carry. And could it be, that most New England STATES are the sized of Southern COUNTIES. We have more people so naturally the crime rate is going to be higher. It could be that the crime rates are inflated by people that have illegally purchased guns so that they can't run the casings and track the weapon.

    Handgunlaw.us
    I wasn't making an argument, I was asking a question. Someone stated that Texas has a low crime rate because people have guns. But they're crime rate is the 16th highest.

    I'm was asking, if one believes that guns lower the crime rate, prove it. I'm not saying that there is causality between gun ownership and crime rates, but ERod was. Statistics seem to say otherwise.

    I live in a state that passed laws saying that you can take guns into bars (taking the right away from business owners to say "no", even), passed laws allowing people to carry guns into city parks (even to Little League games) - and we have the 5th highest violent crime rate in the nation.

    I'm not against the 2nd Amendment. I'm for making your argument work. There appears to be no connection between gun ownership and crime rates - IF there is, then it's not the direction that ERod proposed. And I'm not saying there is.

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not just a fimaly member, but any one. And I don't have to know. Observation and waiting, or just taking advantage of opportunity is all one needs. The person protecting him or her self will never know as much as the person going for them. Unless you have the gun pulled and ready to fire all the time, the advantage is with the criminal.
    Would be you willing try your paintball trick on any random armed citizen, without knowing their firearms experience? Come on, be realistic. You ambushed a family member because you were comfortable doing so. You knew how he would react, otherwise you wouldn't have taken the chance of getting shot with a real gun when all you had was a paintball gun. (i hope you understand that this was incredibly dumb, by the way.) Most violent crimes are crimes of opportunity, not careful planning, regardless of what you see on TV. If you fail to see why this example doesn't prove anything, you really are lost when it comes to this topic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Hyperbole much? There ahve always been restrictions as to where. Nothing new about this in the slightest. Nor is it a violation of the Constitution. Some regulation has always been allowed, including limiting where you carry.
    There have not "always been restrictions" as to where a right can be exercised and the restrictions that currently exist should not be in place. There is nothing hyperbolic about saying that you shouldn't be able choose when and where I exercise a particular right, until it infringes on your own rights. For the -nth time, a responsibly carried gun is a danger to no one except those who would seek to harm the gun carrier.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Would be you willing try your paintball trick on any random armed citizen, without knowing their firearms experience? Come on, be realistic. You ambushed a family member because you were comfortable doing so. You knew how he would react, otherwise you wouldn't have taken the chance of getting shot with a real gun when all you had was a paintball gun. (i hope you understand that this was incredibly dumb, by the way.) Most violent crimes are crimes of opportunity, not careful planning, regardless of what you see on TV. If you fail to see why this example doesn't prove anything, you really are lost when it comes to this topic.
    The point is I could, with a paint ball or a real gun. As i would know what I was doing, I'd win. They could never prevent me from doing it.


    There have not "always been restrictions" as to where a right can be exercised and the restrictions that currently exist should not be in place. There is nothing hyperbolic about saying that you shouldn't be able choose when and where I exercise a particular right, until it infringes on your own rights. For the -nth time, a responsibly carried gun is a danger to no one except those who would seek to harm the gun carrier.
    Restrictions of some kind are almost as old as the country. ANd not admitting that, pretending that we could always take a gun anywhere is hyperbolic.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The point is I could, with a paint ball or a real gun. As i would know what I was doing, I'd win. They could never prevent me from doing it.
    Lol. Perhaps you have a promising future as a criminal then because the amount of bad guys shot by gun carrying citizens would seem to indicate that you must just be that much better than the average criminal. It's not at all impossible for an average CC'er to be able to put rounds on target in under two seconds from a concealed draw. The fastest I've personally seen was about .9 seconds from concealed draw with the first round COM on the target. That's pretty damn fast. The number of defensive gun uses would seem to indicate that the average gun carrier is not as helpless as you seem to be implying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Restrictions of some kind are almost as old as the country. ANd not admitting that, pretending that we could always take a gun anywhere is hyperbolic.
    You can naysay and reinterpret all you wish, but it doesn't change the fact that until my rights actually infringe upon yours, there is no reason to restrict them. Anything else is just emotionalizing what you accurately called a simple "tool." Unless you intend to harm law abiding citizens, why do you care if they are armed?
    Last edited by theangryamerican; 05-17-11 at 06:31 PM.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I wasn't making an argument, I was asking a question. Someone stated that Texas has a low crime rate because people have guns. But they're crime rate is the 16th highest.

    I'm was asking, if one believes that guns lower the crime rate, prove it. I'm not saying that there is causality between gun ownership and crime rates, but ERod was. Statistics seem to say otherwise.

    I live in a state that passed laws saying that you can take guns into bars (taking the right away from business owners to say "no", even), passed laws allowing people to carry guns into city parks (even to Little League games) - and we have the 5th highest violent crime rate in the nation.

    I'm not against the 2nd Amendment. I'm for making your argument work. There appears to be no connection between gun ownership and crime rates - IF there is, then it's not the direction that ERod proposed. And I'm not saying there is.

    let us accept your argument that there is no connection between crime rates and gun ownership

    can anyone justify restrictions on honest people owning guns if that is the case?

    there are lots of reasons to support freedom

    can there ever be an argument to restrict freedom if said restriction has no positive implication in increasing public safety?



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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I wasn't making an argument, I was asking a question. Someone stated that Texas has a low crime rate because people have guns. But they're crime rate is the 16th highest.
    Ah. My apologies.
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Restrictions of some kind are almost as old as the country. ANd not admitting that, pretending that we could always take a gun anywhere is hyperbolic.
    I still say restrictions need to come with proof. Not bias, hearsay, and guesses like you've been doing. Show me it's more dangerous to allow guns on campus. I've given you plenty of examples which say they don't. Real world examples. You can wax philosophical all you want; but end of the day there is a measurement. Between theory and reality, I take reality. Since these are the rights and liberties of the individual here, the free exercise of them by adults in our population; we must be very careful in how we tread and look to preserve as much as possible the blessings of freedom. I need to see data showing a significant increase in crime from campuses with guns before I'll consider using government force against the individual. And that's the way it's supposed to be. That is, if your goal is the preservation and proliferation of freedom.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Yes.

    The commons sense says that since they're supposed to be adults they must be treated like adults.

    If, as you claim, they can't be expected to behave like adults, then should we not Amend the Constitution and adjust the voting age to that age in which you're comfortable in treating them like adults?

    What age would that be?
    If, as you claim, they can't be expected to behave like adults
    LOL, In know better I served in the USMC and as a NCO, yep I know better. Although when the rubber meets the road i would trust must of my Marines with my life but in town at a bar and asking them to behave civily, that's another story.


    What age would that be?
    17, if your old enough to die for your country then you are a adult.

  10. #440
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I still say restrictions need to come with proof. Not bias, hearsay, and guesses like you've been doing. Show me it's more dangerous to allow guns on campus. I've given you plenty of examples which say they don't. Real world examples. You can wax philosophical all you want; but end of the day there is a measurement. Between theory and reality, I take reality. Since these are the rights and liberties of the individual here, the free exercise of them by adults in our population; we must be very careful in how we tread and look to preserve as much as possible the blessings of freedom. I need to see data showing a significant increase in crime from campuses with guns before I'll consider using government force against the individual. And that's the way it's supposed to be. That is, if your goal is the preservation and proliferation of freedom.
    Reasoning isn't equal to bias. Nor is it hearsay. You take the data you have to predict what you don't have. If this progresses, we will sooner of later have actual data, data predicted based on what we did know.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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