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Thread: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    There is one possibility however, tessaesque.

    If a law could be passed by which if a gun owner like theangryamerican (no offense just for the sake of the debate ) is seen showing a lack of skill, manipulating his firearm in a non-professional manner, or otherwise being an assclown while carrying - a pro can walk up to him on the spot and knock his sorry ass in the dirt and keep for his own use the weapon formerly owned by said assclown in question - then The People could support Shall Issue as the law of the land.

    There could of course, be no legal redress for said assclown, not even if the event involved malice and forethought based on prior knowledge of the assclown's demonstrated lack of ability to act like decent folks.

    Are you ok with that? Anybody?
    Um...you DO realize that every state has laws in place CURRENTLY to deal with the intentional or negligent misuse of firearms, right? Rather than being knocked on my ass, I can be fined, stripped of my permit, lose my right to own firearms or even be jailed, depending on the severity of my misuse.

    ...and you know what? I'm TOTALLY OK with that.
    Last edited by theangryamerican; 05-13-11 at 01:51 PM.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    In an ideal nation, marksmanship training would/should be provided by the government as part of its responsibility to provide for the common defense. I believe many schools have basements that can be used as rifle ranges.

    The problem is, we don't live in an ideal nation. Realistically, do you think legislation would ever pass requiring the government to provide firearms training to the populace?
    Realistically? No, it would most likely never happen. But I would consider it a good thing that if standard PE, say senior year, off to the range to learn to shoot various guns.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    ...and you know what? I'm TOTALLY OK with that.
    I would be OK with that only if in the course of your misuse you infringed upon the rights of others. Actually causing damage that is. Otherwise, maybe you can get a fine but at no point should the government use its force against your rights and liberties. Those punishments should be reserved only when one has infringed upon the rights and liberties of others.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Hell ****ing no. You want to legally allow people to steal other people's property without compensation and to infringe upon ones' innate right to keep and bear arms for what reason? Because someone else said "I saw him acting like an assclown"? That won't be abused? It's dumb, you can use government force against someone through due process of law ONCE they have committed a crime; not prior. Particularly not on some perception of "assclown". Ridiculous.
    Hmmmm.....

    The 2nd Amendment states:

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Ok, thats cool. Trouble is... a lot of folk focus solely on the "shall not be infringed" portion of the text and tend to forget the "well regulated" part.

    In this context and the language of the time, "well regulated" does not mean lots of rules, laws and regulations, it means trained, equipped, and capable.


    The average John Doe will not spend the money for proper training unless it is mandated. Recognizing that as reality, requiring training and/or exhibition of minimal skills as a requirement to exercise the right is not unreasonable.

    Are you ok with that? Anybody?

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I would be OK with that only if in the course of your misuse you infringed upon the rights of others. Actually causing damage that is. Otherwise, maybe you can get a fine but at no point should the government use its force against your rights and liberties. Those punishments should be reserved only when one has infringed upon the rights and liberties of others.
    Sorry, Ikari, I did not mean to imply that all those punishments could be employed for ANY type of misuse, but rather that there are differing levels of misuse and depending on HOW I misused my gun, I could face one or more of those consequences, depending on what the laws are in my state. For Ric to state that someone should "knock me on my ass" for misusing a gun pales in comparison to the penalties that are already in place. He asked if anyone was ok with that in the hopes that his ridiculous hyperbole would sway the argument in his favor and I was simply stating that there are already worse consequences in place than what he's suggesting and I'm fine with that.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    The Mayor sees nothing in the United States Constitution exempting college campuses from the strictures of the Second Amendment.

    All those damn colleges, with their freaky retarded anti-American liberal socialists screaming about how their tenured positions in those colleges make them bastions and defenders of the First Amendment, are the same damn traitors trying to destroy the Second Amendment.

    Well, Texas now says that the adults in college, whom the left insists are mature enought to vote, under the Twenty Sixth Amendment, should not be denied their Second Amendment freedoms as well.

    There's a solution for all people who don't want to go to a college campus that will be required to allow its students to carry guns. Don't go. They're not worth educating anyway.

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Hmmmm.....

    The 2nd Amendment states:

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Ok, thats cool. Trouble is... a lot of folk focus solely on the "shall not be infringed" portion of the text and tend to forget the "well regulated" part.

    In this context and the language of the time, "well regulated" does not mean lots of rules, laws and regulations, it means trained, equipped, and capable.


    The average John Doe will not spend the money for proper training unless it is mandated. Recognizing that as reality, requiring training and/or exhibition of minimal skills as a requirement to exercise the right is not unreasonable.

    Are you ok with that? Anybody?
    No, I'm not ok with that. How do you become skilled with a gun if you can't have a gun till you demonstrate that you're skilled with it? A well regulated militia is indeed a necessity for a free state. It's still true to this very day. Because of that the right of the individual to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon. I don't want the State coming up with more restrictions and regulations. "Oh you have to be X skilled....wait did I say X, I meant Y....****, you're at Y level....well I meant Z". Piss on that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #248
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    [QUOTE=Boo Radley;1059483058]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post

    I admit, I see it as a no brainer. Not something that requires much research. But no, Colorado, the entire state, is not enough. It is at the bottom of the list as to where I would expect trouble. Dosen't mean it won't happen one day, but I see Chicago, New York, Dallas, Atlanta, as places more likely to see problmes. Larger urban areas.

    And yes, it is early yet. It takes time for these things to be properly investigated. So there is not likley to be much on it YET.




    Not much. A search of students accidentally shooting themselves does produce results. How about you look?




    Students don't own, run or hold liability at the school. Nor do they really face much of any kind of saftey concerns that would warrant having a gun.
    Tell that to Virginia Tech.
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Hmmmm.....

    The 2nd Amendment states:

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Ok, thats cool. Trouble is... a lot of folk focus solely on the "shall not be infringed" portion of the text and tend to forget the "well regulated" part.

    In this context and the language of the time, "well regulated" does not mean lots of rules, laws and regulations, it means trained, equipped, and capable.
    And the use of the phrase "the people" means EVERYONE, not just the militia. The second clause is not dependent on the first clause, quite the reverse. The people have to have the freedom and the right to own and bear weapons because the militia needs them.

    You may be shocked to realize this, but the "right" to keep and bear arms is older than the human race itself. The precursor hominid species were making weapons before homo sapiens ever evolved. Homo neanderthalis also had weapons.

    No, while a miilitia is necessary to preserve individual freedom, one of the freedoms that militia is protecting is the freedom to own weapons.

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

    I admit, I see it as a no brainer. Not something that requires much research. But no, Colorado, the entire state, is not enough. It is at the bottom of the list as to where I would expect trouble. Dosen't mean it won't happen one day, but I see Chicago, New York, Dallas, Atlanta, as places more likely to see problmes. Larger urban areas.

    And yes, it is early yet. It takes time for these things to be properly investigated. So there is not likley to be much on it YET.
    So until you can compile such data, you have no proper argument for restricting the rights of adults.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not much. A search of students accidentally shooting themselves does produce results. How about you look?
    Did they do so on campus? Is the accident rate above background?


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Students don't own, run or hold liability at the school. Nor do they really face much of any kind of saftey concerns that would warrant having a gun.
    And you've produced no data that would warrant using government force against the rights and liberties of adults in our society.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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