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Thread: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Anecdotes and hyperbole are poor arguments to make. The evidence doesn't back you up...and I never used the term "CCW training" in my post.
    Then on with it....

    Do you think teachers/students should be given "real" instruction by local PDs or in places that offered realistic supplemental training to students at mil/LEO discount prices?

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The CCW training argument doesn't sway me. I see too many jackasses with a CCW that should not be allowed to own a Super Soaker, much less CARRY a LOADED gun.

    You can't learn to shoot discriminately across a room full of screaming kids while under fire at a 2 week course and one re-qual a year.
    that is a good argument to disarm cops



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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    There are no "minor" incidents with guns. No whoops. And very rarely is it the dumbass that gets hurt.

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Then on with it....

    Do you think teachers/students should be given "real" instruction by local PDs or in places that offered realistic supplemental training to students at mil/LEO discount prices?
    I think people should be given as much instruction as they wish to have. There is no law currently limiting the amount of firearms training classes an individual can take. It’s the individual's own responsibility to reach a level of competence that they feel is appropriate.

    Really, though, the anti-gun crowd tries to make gun safety seem like some mysterious, arcane art, when in reality, it all can be condensed down in to one simple rule. Treat every gun as though it’s loaded. That's all there is to it. 99% of gun negligence can be averted by following that one simple rule. I know there are other rules that the NRA will preach as well, but really, as long as you believe that every gun is loaded and ready to fire, you’ll be doing all the right things with it anyway. (i.e. Not pointing it at people, not pulling the trigger, making sure it is secure, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    There are no "minor" incidents with guns. No whoops. And very rarely is it the dumbass that gets hurt.
    Spoken like someone who has no experience with guns. Again, your tendency toward hyperbole is impressive. Yes, guns have the ability to cause serious or even fatal injury, but to say there is no such thing as a minor incident is pants-on head retarded.

    Example: Several weeks ago I had just returned from pheasant hunting and was cleaning my Remington M11 before putting it away. Now, the gun was unloaded, the barrel was completely removed from the receiver and I was running a cleaning patch through the bore with a two foot cleaning rod, from the front of the bore back toward the rear. My cleaning patch was wadded and I encountered some resistance in the choke at the front of the barrel. When I pushed harder, the patch came free and the cleaning rod went all the way down the barrel a bit…uh…rapidly. My thumb, on the handle of the cleaning rod was driven into the lip of the barrel and I got a nasty blood blister under the thumbnail for my trouble. In this case, I'm the dumbass that got hurt (should have trimmed my patch smaller. ) It hurt like hell, I swore a bit, but do you really believe my life was in any danger? Would you not consider this a “minor” incident?
    Last edited by theangryamerican; 05-13-11 at 10:58 AM.
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    [QUOTE=Ikari;1059481282]
    Over the entire State of Colorado is not enough, huh? The thing that really gets me is that you make a base, statistical basis on why it shouldn't be allowed. These are generalized stats aggregated over the populace. So it doesn't matter if it's just Colorado or if it's the whole of the United States. If these are true probabilities for the system, then that's that. Thus if what you say is correct, given the number of students over the decades they have been allowed to carry weapons on Colorado Universities; we would have seen multiple cases of accidents, mishandlings, etc. Colorado isn't some po-dunk little backwards water state with 15 people in it. Every semester 10's of thousands of students come through each of our Universities. Over decades, how many students is that? Why then have we not seen a single incident of what you claim would happen if students were allowed to bring guns? Could we be "lucky", maybe but it's a lot lower probability then say, you being wrong with the dynamics of this system. Perhaps it is I who is right on this matter, that allowing guns in school is actually a null case and will have no real affect on crime or lead to a more or less dangerous campus.

    But you don't even want to consider that. You want to say "you're lucky" and "well I think" blah blah blah. It didn't even cross your mind that maybe Colorado isn't as backwoods as you think it is, that we've had A LOT of students come through our university structure over the decades, that this has been allowed, that it produced no effect which is why you generally will not find news articles in it because it in fact produces no net affect and thus no news.
    I admit, I see it as a no brainer. Not something that requires much research. But no, Colorado, the entire state, is not enough. It is at the bottom of the list as to where I would expect trouble. Dosen't mean it won't happen one day, but I see Chicago, New York, Dallas, Atlanta, as places more likely to see problmes. Larger urban areas.

    And yes, it is early yet. It takes time for these things to be properly investigated. So there is not likley to be much on it YET.


    Look it up. If what you say about these adults, their brain development, blah blah blah is true; you can certainly find news and data about students being accidently shot on campus in Colorado or some form of wild west shoot out in a free speech center. What does the lack of news tell you?
    Not much. A search of students accidentally shooting themselves does produce results. How about you look?


    Should the students or reality have any say in the matter?
    Students don't own, run or hold liability at the school. Nor do they really face much of any kind of saftey concerns that would warrant having a gun.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    where the scum in the VPC fail is how they frame the issue

    they assume that the only beneficial use of a gun is "shooting" a criminal" and they compare accidental shootings with shooting criminals. they also count a battered wife shooting an assaulting spouse as "someone close to you" but the fact remains. the vast majority of useful instances of a gun saving some one does NOT INVOLVE shooting the criminal

    If someone breaks into my house and I detain him at gun point or even scare him off the gun has protected me but the VPC asswipes don't count that. In the VAST MAJORITY OF CASES, a deterrence is not reported by the police as a "gun incident


    the fact is almost every retired cop, DA and Judge owns a gun ought to tell you something
    One, that isn't the issue in question. In question was who statisitically is more likely to be shot. More often, in actual shootings, we shoot ourselves.

    Second, we have no real way to know about prevented crimes. A number, how big or small is debatable, are prevent by people without guns. But any study that can be seen as facutal would require more than just asking gun owners. I'm quite sure my dogs discourage crime, but any thing I say would be subject to question and not something that can be seen as statistical proof.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Spoken like someone who has no experience with guns.
    To the contrary

    Again, your tendency toward hyperbole is impressive. Yes, guns have the ability to cause serious or even fatal injury, but to say there is no such thing as a minor incident is pants-on head retarded.
    Letting any one who wants to carry a gun be responsible for their own proficiancy is like telling anyone who wants to drive a car they no longer have to do driver training or take a driving test before going on the road driving a 3,000lb bullet. I'm not too worried about grovernment mandated requirments because we as the voters who voted in the people who let us have our CCW rights can also make sure that we keep people in office who will keep the requirments resonable.

    I'll ya what....I posted in a forum (which shall remain *nameless*).... that anyone who can afford to take a human life can afford a few boxes of bullets and a basic training class. The response was monkey ass brutal: .."How dare you ,ric to deny a poor old lady with no money the right to have a gun by having even the slightest requirements. WTF is wrong with you???"

    I was even told that if a few innocent people were killed by people who weren't made to have even the most elementary training on when and when not to shoot, it was too bad and a reasonable sacrfice.

    Stupid MFers shouldn't have the same rights as professionals and no Virginia, all men ain't created equal. No training time = No gun time.

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    To the contrary



    Letting any one who wants to carry a gun be responsible for their own proficiancy is like telling anyone who wants to drive a car they no longer have to do driver training or take a driving test before going on the road driving a 3,000lb bullet. I'm not too worried about grovernment mandated requirments because we as the voters who voted in the people who let us have our CCW rights can also make sure that we keep people in office who will keep the requirments resonable. .
    There is never a requirement that can be attached to a given right. Driving is not a right, but still, to poke little holes in your analogy… To get my driver’s license I took a single, 20 minute test, way back when I was 16. I’ve never been required to “practice” driving or prove my skills to anyone since that day. There is no requalification for your driver’s license. Cars are the number one cause of accident related fatalities in this country, ranking FAR more dangerous than firearms, yet it’s enough that I took a spin around the block and filled out some multiple choice questions over 11 years ago. I’m responsible for maintaining my own proficiency behind the wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I'll ya what....I posted in a forum (which shall remain *nameless*).... that anyone who can afford to take a human life can afford a few boxes of bullets and a basic training class. The response was monkey ass brutal: .."How dare you ,ric to deny a poor old lady with no money the right to have a gun by having even the slightest requirements. WTF is wrong with you???" .
    There should be no requirement to be able to ensure your own personal safety. People should WANT to take the necessary steps to effectively protect themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I was even told that if a few innocent people were killed by people who weren't made to have even the most elementary training on when and when not to shoot, it was too bad and a reasonable sacrfice. .
    There are already laws in place that punish the misuse of firearms. There should not be a preemptive punishment on those who DO abide by the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Stupid MFers shouldn't have the same rights as professionals and no Virginia, all men ain't created equal. No training time = No gun time.
    You opinion does not affect my rights, just as my opinion does not effect yours. If you don’t believe that all men are created equal, maybe you’re living in the wrong country.

    Btw, I notice you simply ignored my scenario that neatly refuted your "no such thing as a minor gun accident" nonsense.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post

    There should be no requirement to be able to ensure your own personal safety. People should WANT to take the necessary steps to effectively protect themselves.
    C'mon get serious ..

    What do you think the vehicle accident rate in the US would be if there were no licensing and driving test requirements?

    Are you advocating "benefit of the doubt" for a generation of people that have no sense of personal responsibility whatsoever???

    Shall issue to mouth-breathing, pimpled face, smart ass punks that need pictures of hamburgers on the cash register to make change and can't tell time on an analog clock no requirement?

    lmao

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    C'mon get serious ..

    What do you think the vehicle accident rate in the US would be if there were no licensing and driving test requirements?

    Are you advocating "benefit of the doubt" for a generation of people that have no sense of personal responsibility whatsoever???

    Shall issue to mouth-breathing, pimpled face, smart ass punks that need pictures of hamburgers on the cash register to make change and can't tell time on an analog clock no requirement?

    lmao
    Frankly, I bet the accident rate would be about the same. There’s no correlation between having a driver’s license and having good driving skills. Five minutes on any major road will tell you that.

    So, because people are required to take a 20 minute driving test and a multiple choice quiz ONCE, that's enough for you? I'd love it if all it took to obtain a carry permit was a 20 minute gun demo. Load, holster, unholster, fire, unload, field strip, and I'm out the door with my permit, I just have to get my picture retaken every couple of years. That sounds about equivalent, right?

    Again, driving is a privilege, and frankly, a privilege that is far more dangerous than exercising the right to own and carry a gun. The amount of "training" one must go through to drive a car is laughable at best, and driving is simply a convenience. The ability to protect your life and that of your loved ones is a basic right and not something that should have any requirements placed on it.

    How many people take more advanced driver training than what is required to get their license? How many people go the gun range at least several times a year? Your analogy is asinine and there’s no evidence to support any of the hysterical mouth-foaming you’re spouting here. 40 states in this country are shall-issue. You’d think if there was a visible problem we’d have noticed by now, no?
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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