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Thread: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

  1. #171
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Wouldn't it be better to have stats that include all of them? Frankly, there amy bge other factors involved either way. Even I showed there was more truouble at a school with guns allowed, it is likely there are reasons beyond the guns for it (which inpart is why I think some areas have larger risk factors than others). Do you really think this method would be conclusive?
    It gives the best comparisons. Calculate the ratio of campus gun crime to community gun crime for each University and then compare the Universities with gun bans to those without gun bans. That will tell you if allowing guns on campus has any functional effect at all. That's the data you're really after. Not some "well there are Y gun accidents, and people are X age, and thus if you assume all people in the X age bracket to act exactly alike and that all people in X age bracket would choose to carry a gun, you can say that situation Z is going to be worse". Which is really what you've done. You've based it on supposition and assumption; not proper correlation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't think the leaps are that large. More people do shoot themselves, and young people are more likely to use poor judgment. I think this is true. adding guns to the mix would logically increase the risk.
    Then why don't you look at universities with gun bans and those without; look at the ratios as I have explained them, and find out for sure if your supposition is correct. Because there's a ton of assumption in your "logic" for using government force against the rights and liberties of the individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Doesn't mean it's wrng either. However, the fact is we have allowed it, and stood by it legally.
    So did slavery till we fought a war over it. The fact of the matter is that YOU are calling for government force against the individual, adults in our society of whom we are to recognize in full their rights and liberties. Thus it is up to you to prove, without strict conjecture and assumption, that there is a real and measurable effect. Until then, all your argument really comes down to is guessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If there is need for revolution, I would prefer something that might actually work.
    If there is need for revolution, I would prefer the people to have access to the tools of it. You're not going to rise up with pitchforks and torches these days.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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  2. #172
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It gives the best comparisons. Calculate the ratio of campus gun crime to community gun crime for each University and then compare the Universities with gun bans to those without gun bans. That will tell you if allowing guns on campus has any functional effect at all. That's the data you're really after. Not some "well there are Y gun accidents, and people are X age, and thus if you assume all people in the X age bracket to act exactly alike and that all people in X age bracket would choose to carry a gun, you can say that situation Z is going to be worse". Which is really what you've done. You've based it on supposition and assumption; not proper correlation.
    I'm not so sure, but I have tried to find even these. Under this search: Gun violence at the University of Colorado. I found these: Google

    So far working down it I have not found anything yet.


    Then why don't you look at universities with gun bans and those without; look at the ratios as I have explained them, and find out for sure if your supposition is correct. Because there's a ton of assumption in your "logic" for using government force against the rights and liberties of the individual.
    Again, I have been doing searches and have not found anything. I was under the assumption you ahd already done this and thought you could provide a link.


    So did slavery till we fought a war over it. The fact of the matter is that YOU are calling for government force against the individual, adults in our society of whom we are to recognize in full their rights and liberties. Thus it is up to you to prove, without strict conjecture and assumption, that there is a real and measurable effect. Until then, all your argument really comes down to is guessing.
    Would you really argue this is equal to slavery in any way? Seriously, no is losing anything by not having a gun in the classroom.


    If there is need for revolution, I would prefer the people to have access to the tools of it. You're not going to rise up with pitchforks and torches these days.
    What I'm saying is in today's world, this is really no longer the tool for it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #173
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Obviously you aren't from Texas. Ever hear of illegal street vendors who sell to ex-cons, gangbangers, etc, etc... Being crazy doesn't prevent them from reading directions on about a bazillion websites that show how to make a hand gun.
    exactly, that is why restrictions on honest people only creates disarmed victims



  4. #174
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    So... because criminals will always have access to guns, you support imposing restrictions that will only impact the law-abiding? That makes perfect sense...
    It makes sense to the left

    Here is why

    disarmed people are more likely to cede rights to the nanny state in order to protect them from the criminals.

    armed people are less likely to be in need of nanny state

    anything that makes someone less dependent on the government is anathema to lefties

    furthermore many lefties believe that a criminal is really not responsible for being a scum bag. its society's fault, its the rich peoples fault, its the fault of racism etc. in other words, killing a mope isn't really fair since the mope cannot help himself



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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As those have little to do with schools, I'm not sure it matters. But more guns would likely mean more shootings, a more people shooting themselves. The shooting themselves is certainly supported by stats.
    really, when was the last time you heard of an accidental shooting at say the Grand American trap shoot-8000 people every one of them with a shotgun? the National Rifle and Pistol Matches at Camp perry that run a month-all sorts of scary looking "assault weapons"



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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    These are fairly widely known stats. But I'll give you some links:

    A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in an unintentional shooting, than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
    A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in an unintentional shooting, a criminal assault or homicide, or an attempted or completed suicide than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
    Journal of Trauma, 1998

    Stop Handgun Violence: The Facts

    The largest category of firearms fatality is suicide, not homicide. In 1997, 54 percent of all gun deaths were suicides, and 42 percent were homicides.16

    (snip)

    Self Defense

    For every time a gun in the home is used in a self-defense homicide, a gun will be used in�


    1.3 unintentional deaths

    4.6 criminal homicides

    37 suicides22

    VPC - Handgun Ban Fact Sheet

    In 2007, there were 613 fatal firearm accidents in the United States, constituting 0.5% of 123,706 fatal accidents that year.[120]

    (snip)

    In 2007, there were roughly 15,698 emergency room visits for non-fatal firearm accidents . . . .

    Gun Control

    The last one, though hardly a non-biased site, clearly shows over 16,000 people shot themselves in 2007.
    not that crap again which counts as a gun in the house one that a home invader brings into the house


    VPC-the most anti gun lie filled hack site going



  7. #177
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    really, when was the last time you heard of an accidental shooting at say the Grand American trap shoot-8000 people every one of them with a shotgun? the National Rifle and Pistol Matches at Camp perry that run a month-all sorts of scary looking "assault weapons"
    Don't you try to use your logic here, sir! There's going to be gunfights over who got the better grade in class. Sporting events will turn into all out warfare. Debate teams will just shoot anyone with a dissenting opinion.The whole campus will be knee deep in blood! This is the end of college as we know it!!!!

    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What I'm saying is in today's world, this is really no longer the tool for it.
    In today's world anything can happen at any moment ....Like 2 or 3 massive earthquakes hit the US. Everything is in shambles. Looting galore, etc

    The whole point is that you are armed because you never know where or when an attack can take place.

    Just like you wear a ****ing seatbelt when you don't expect an accident. If you expected bs trouble, you wouldn't go there. A seatbelt and a handgun are for the unexpected.

  9. #179
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    In today's world anything can happen at any moment ....Like 2 or 3 massive earthquakes hit the US. Everything is in shambles. Looting galore, etc

    The whole point is that you are armed because you never know where or when an attack can take place.

    Just like you wear a ****ing seatbelt when you don't expect an accident. If you expected bs trouble, you wouldn't go there. A seatbelt and a handgun are for the unexpected.
    And yet, somehow, someway, many live their entire lives without ever having to use a gun. I've had a few accidents in my life, but never had a situation where I needed a gun. Some for whatever reason see the need where there largely isn't one.

    But let's be clear, I'm only arguing for restriction in some places. No need for a gun on campus, or in the classroom.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #180
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    Re: Texas Senate approves guns in college classrooms

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not so sure, but I have tried to find even these. Under this search: Gun violence at the University of Colorado. I found these: Google

    So far working down it I have not found anything yet.
    That's because even though all these "reckless kids" can carry guns, we've actually had ZERO problems from it. And there's your data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, I have been doing searches and have not found anything. I was under the assumption you ahd already done this and thought you could provide a link.
    There aren't many Universities which allow guns on campus, there's maybe 25-30 I think thus far (with Texas you'll get another 10 or so probably). But of these schools, none have had any problems from students carrying weapons on campus. Oh snap, there goes your "they're dumb kids" argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Would you really argue this is equal to slavery in any way? Seriously, no is losing anything by not having a gun in the classroom.
    They're not equal, I'm just saying that we've had laws that were accepted which weren't right. Slavery of course infringes well more on an individual's liberty; but you're still advocating the use of government force against the individual and thus you still must prove your side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What I'm saying is in today's world, this is really no longer the tool for it.
    It's the most basic of tools necessary to get the job done.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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