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Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

barack the slasher's HEALTH CZAR:

"any health care funding plan that is just, equitable, civilized and humane must, must redistribute wealth from the wealthier among us to the poorer and less fortunate, excellent health care is by definition redistributive"

YouTube - Donald Berwick on Redistributing Wealth
 
The Prof said:
barack the slasher's HEALTH CZAR:

"any health care funding plan that is just, equitable, civilized and humane must, must redistribute wealth from the wealthier among us to the poorer and less fortunate, excellent health care is by definition redistributive"

YouTube - Donald Berwick on Redistributing Wealth
Click to expand...

And he's correct. The current system redistributes the wealth in the sense that the poor go to the hospital and get treated and don't pay their bills forcing hospitals to bump up the costs on those that have the money to pay the bills. The only system that doesn't redistribute would be to have poor people have no healthcare or access to it. If you don't have cash on hand or insurance you get thrown out of doctor's office's and hospitals even if you need a life saving surgery.

Is that what you're advocating for?
 
obamacare makes things worse

it expands medicare by millions without any structural reform, instead actually CUTTING its already severely upside down funding a full HALF TRILLION

Capitol Briefing - Senate votes to keep Medicare cuts

er costs actually increase

ER visits, costs in Mass. climb - The Boston Globe

doctors refuse new medicare patients

Finding a Doctor Who Accepts Medicare Isn’t Easy - NYTimes.com

our already broken backed states are burdened with a quarter T in the form of brand new medicaid enrollees, the ghetto of health care, unfunded

Governors balk over what healthcare bill will cost states - The Boston Globe

the university of virginia actually finds that americans with NO INSURANCE fare better than those whose primary pay status is medicaid

ASA: ASA 130th Annual Meeting Abstracts - Primary Payer Status Affects Mortality For Major Surgical Operations

obamacare is a pig

why do so many want out

why are all the favorites allowed to go

do you KNOW i-wanna-waiver weiner
 
roughdraft274 said:
And he's correct. The current system redistributes the wealth in the sense that the poor go to the hospital and get treated and don't pay their bills forcing hospitals to bump up the costs on those that have the money to pay the bills. The only system that doesn't redistribute would be to have poor people have no healthcare or access to it. If you don't have cash on hand or insurance you get thrown out of doctor's office's and hospitals even if you need a life saving surgery.

Is that what you're advocating for?
Click to expand...

It seems hard to get people to read for meaning. It too often seems like a losing battle.
 
roughdraft274 said:
And he's correct. The current system redistributes the wealth in the sense that the poor go to the hospital and get treated and don't pay their bills forcing hospitals to bump up the costs on those that have the money to pay the bills. The only system that doesn't redistribute would be to have poor people have no healthcare or access to it. If you don't have cash on hand or insurance you get thrown out of doctor's office's and hospitals even if you need a life saving surgery.

Is that what you're advocating for?
Click to expand...

do you even read what you write?

you are basically saying redistributing a differnt way is ok..

and who are these "poor people" you speak of?
Liberals try to ride that picture of people who through no fault of thier own need to be taken care of, by those of us who can...

were all humans kid, not just liberals.... of course we extend that thought.. how dare you imply otherwise

do you honestly think these "poor peple" (violins playing) are the only ones that are going to hop on this ship of fools?

you have to think before you act when you spend other peoples money, is that too much to ask.

seriously, think man, its good for you
 
shades said:
do you even read what you write?

you are basically saying redistributing a differnt way is ok..

and who are these "poor people" you speak of?
Liberals try to ride that picture of people who through no fault of thier own need to be taken care of, by those of us who can...

were all humans kid, not just liberals.... of course we extend that thought.. how dare you imply otherwise

do you honestly think these "poor peple" (violins playing) are the only ones that are going to hop on this ship of fools?

you have to think before you act when you spend other peoples money, is that too much to ask.

seriously, think man, its good for you
Click to expand...

It covers a wide variety of people who have need. Just as a fire dpeartment serves the community, often paid for with taxes, and still nto considered socialism or any such silliness, using resources to deal with public health is not all that different. Medicine is not like buying a car or any widget.
 
Obamacare is and will be a disaster if it ever passes in totality, I happen to think it wont, but for the sake of argument lets say it does.

My employer realizes its cheaper to drop me and toss me into the pool... which they will, en masse.
You will evntually and in short order have a healthcare system that cant support itself with the current monies allocated for it.
where do we go from there? higher taxes, less care?

Those of us opposing this monstrosity of a mess, simply want to know what if...
And in its best presentation , you, nor anyone that supports it has yet to tell me how its going to help me.....

ITS MY MONEY< TELL ME
 
shades said:
Obamacare is and will be a disaster if it ever passes in totality, I happen to think it wont, but for the sake of argument lets say it does.

My employer realizes its cheaper to drop me and toss me into the pool... which they will, en masse.
You will evntually and in short order have a healthcare system that cant support itself with the current monies allocated for it.
where do we go from there? higher taxes, less care?

Those of us opposing this monstrosity of a mess, simply want to know what if...
And in its best presentation , you, nor anyone that supports it has yet to tell me how its going to help me.....

ITS MY MONEY< TELL ME
Click to expand...

Employers have been dropping folks for years, just knowing Obama would do this even before he consider running. Your hyperbolic fear aside, most of the problems you and others fear describe exactly what has been happening. And yet, you've been fine with it happening.
 
shades said:
do you even read what you write?
Click to expand...
No, I smash my keyboard and hope it spells something.
shades said:
you are basically saying redistributing a differnt way is ok..
Click to expand...
Nope. No, I'm not. I'm saying that what the guy said is accurate. Our current system redistributes and any system that we go to will have to distribute except for the one that I described. It's not hard to understand.
shades said:
and who are these "poor people" you speak of?
Click to expand...
Do I need to get you a list of all people below the poverty line?
shades said:
Liberals try to ride that picture of people who through no fault of thier own need to be taken care of, by those of us who can...
Click to expand...
I stated a fact. Right now, in our country, our system allows people without healh insurance or anything for the hospital to sue them for to go the hospital for emergency conditions, get expensive treatment and then leave and not pay the bill. Do you deny this? I'm simply saying that the only method that does no redistributing is the one I described in my last post. I didn't say that that's what conservatives wanted, I said that that's the only one that doesn't redistribute wealth.

shades said:
were all humans kid, not just liberals.... of course we extend that thought.. how dare you imply otherwise
Click to expand...
I didn't imply ****. Just cause you can't understand the words I'm typing doesn't grant you the privilege to talk down to this "kid". Go act offended elsewhere cause I have no problem wiping my ass with your outrage at something that you obviously didn't even understand as you were reading it.

shades said:
do you honestly think these "poor peple" (violins playing) are the only ones that are going to hop on this ship of fools?

you have to think before you act when you spend other peoples money, is that too much to ask.

seriously, think man, its good for you
Click to expand...
I didn't advocate spending any body else's money. When I go to the hospital, my insurance company pays a large amount and some of that goes towards covering what other people couldn't afford to pay because they went to the hospital for treatment without any means of paying. That's all I said. Either you are in favor of redistributing of the wealth or you are in favor of not allowing those who can't afford it to go to the hospital regardless of how sick they are. If you don't comprehend that then it's not my problem.
 
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roughdraft274 said:
I didn't advocate spending any body else's money. When I go to the hospital, my insurance company pays a large amount and some of that goes towards covering what other people couldn't afford to pay because they went to the hospital for treatment without any means of paying. That's all I said. Either you are in favor of redistributing of the wealth or you are in favor of not allowing those who can't afford it to go to the hospital regardless of how sick they are. If you don't comprehend that then it's not my problem.
Click to expand...

This is important. Anyone suggesting that we don't pay for others with our money MUST deal with this.
 
LOL!

it's NOT redistribution

except that it IS

meanwhile, reid and pelosi and weiner want OUT

obamacare's a pig

sorry
 
The individual mandate stands no chance in the supreme court, which leaves me to wonder how Obamacare will eventually be implemented.
 
zimmer said:
This corrupt piece of legislative dung should be flushed.

How many "exemptions" we at now? And how many unions...?

.
Click to expand...

This is the part I agree is wrong, but not necessarily unconstitutional because we have a slew of other simular mandatory pay laws, like smogging your car. That flaw in the NHC was because legislatures wanted the insurance in private hands, instead of government hands where it could have been taxed, which is legal. If you make the medical care national government, you end all the arguments against it.
 
Bluespade said:
The individual mandate stands no chance in the supreme court, which leaves me to wonder how Obamacare will eventually be implemented.
Click to expand...

Hmm, try taxation.
 
The Prof said:
LOL!

it's NOT redistribution

except that it IS

meanwhile, reid and pelosi and weiner want OUT

obamacare's a pig

sorry
Click to expand...

Private insurance is also redistribution, so does that mean those who oppose NHC for all are also hypocrites?
 
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Bluespade said:
Coming from Obama's mouth, it wasn't a tax. Weird.
Click to expand...

It wasn't a tax, that is why it is unconstitutional. You asked how it would be implemented. By taxing it the legal way and gov. paying private medicals with the money.
 
Bluespade said:
That makes no sense what so ever.
Click to expand...

That is because you never gave it any thought, and set your mind on the media key talking points, thus limiting your view of reality.

To begin with private insurance, you pay a few hundred into a group medical plan, and when you have a bill running up in the thousands, the group's money pays for your injury. Not your money, the bill exceeded everything you paid in that was redistributed to others in the group. So you benefited from redistribution by the group. Gov. insurance works the same way, but don't claim your plan doesn't redistribute when you need it.

But that is only half of the issue. Insurance company's take my money to fund you!! Yes, they get billions in subsides annually, and some of that was redistributed from my pocket, and the pockets of workers who have no health care.

Federal tax subsidies for employer-sponsored insurance
(ESI) provide over $100 billion in tax benefits annually.

http://www.rwjf.org/files/research/synthesisno3policyprimer.pdf

There is no getting around the redistribution you are involved in. So for anyone with insurance to complain, they are hypocrites!!
 
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shintao said:
That is because you never gave it any thought, and set your mind on the media key talking points, thus limiting your view of reality.

To begin with private insurance, you pay a few hundred into a group medical plan, and when you have a bill running up in the thousands, the group's money pays for your injury. Not your money, the bill exceeded everything you paid in that was redistributed to others in the group. So you benefited from redistribution by the group. Gov. insurance works the same way, but don't claim your plan doesn't redistribute when you need it.


But that is only half of the issue. Insurance company's take my money to fund you!! Yes, they get billions in subsides annually, and some of that was redistributed from my pocket, and the pockets of workers who have no health care.

Federal tax subsidies for employer-sponsored insurance
(ESI) provide over $100 billion in tax benefits annually.

http://www.rwjf.org/files/research/synthesisno3policyprimer.pdf

There is no getting around the redistribution you are involved in. So for anyone with insurance to complain, they are hypocrites!!
Click to expand...



Those "subsidies" are for employers........not insurance companies...............and if you buy your own insurance.............you would get that "subsidy" on your tax return as well........

not to mention insurance is VOLUNTARY And insurance damn sure doesnt redistribute to anyone that DOESNT PUT IN
 
PT Again said:
Those "subsidies" are for employers........not insurance companies...............and if you buy your own insurance.............you would get that "subsidy" on your tax return as well........

not to mention insurance is VOLUNTARY And insurance damn sure doesnt redistribute to anyone that DOESNT PUT IN
Click to expand...

Not quite ture btw. Insurance premuiums are based in part on costs of medical care. That cost is often based on treatment that was given to people who didn't pay. So, as your insurance company has to pay prices that are linked to people who didn't pay, your premium is covering people who don't have insurance.
 
Boo Radley said:
Employers have been dropping folks for years, just knowing Obama would do this even before he consider running.
Click to expand...

Your hyperbolic fear aside, most of the problems you and others fear describe exactly what has been happening.
Click to expand...

completely incoherent

LOL!

dept chair, huh?
 
PT Again said:
Those "subsidies" are for employers........not insurance companies...............and if you buy your own insurance.............you would get that "subsidy" on your tax return as well........

not to mention insurance is VOLUNTARY And insurance damn sure doesnt redistribute to anyone that DOESNT PUT IN
Click to expand...

You haven't told me why it isn't redistribution? The semantics game: $Gov. subsidy - $employer - $insurance - $you & $dr.

Only personal insurance is voluntary, but so is Medicare. And the Obama plan required everybody to have some "type" of medical care. But regardless of these side issues, the redistribution occurs, so..................

You might be interested in this tidbit subsidy I help pay for as well.

The funding provided in George Bush’s Medicare D plan for Medicare Advantage plans is an example of corporate welfare which does not benefit patient care. Under the program, insurance companies are provided more money than it costs to care for patients under the government’s Medicare program, despite the insurance companies cherry picking healthier patients.
 
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