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Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

Boo Radley said:
Actually it doesn't. I linked earlier that the language specifically forbids them from doing that. Like all insurance comapnies it is set to examine effective treatment versus ineffective treatment. This is not about denying care, but making sure you pay for care that works. Your insurance company does that and more. Much more. So, it is plainly dishonest to call this a death panel. In fact, as shown repeatedly, it would likely lead to more care approved than you have now with your insurance company.
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Yeah ok....We'll see.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:



Yeah ok....We'll see.

j-mac
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What does London have to do with the specific language? We do not have the British system. Though many on your side selectively choose clips and information. But the point is, we don't have that system even proposed let alone implimented.
 
j-mac said:
Joe, God love ya! You're just plain wrong on this. Listen, this HC debate and law was crafted, pushed, and voted in the middle of the night completely by a demo majority in all three branches. The GOP was powerless to do ANYTHING to stop, change, or move it in any way. That was clear enough by how the GOP was locked out of the closed door meetings on the plan. So you can try and spin it all you want, but the truth is that all the GOP could do was cause noise.



Well, it is true that the people today seem to want to vote themselves riches from the Treasury, to wit is a deathnell to the republic. But we don't have the leadership now to show a different course. Most of these entitlements were enacted by demo politicans, and bleeding hearts decades ago, now you are seeing that you reep what you have sown.

j-mac
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That's what the GOP want you to believe because that's what happened under Clinton's tenure when his administration wrote "HillaryCare". But drafting the PPACA didn't start out that way. Both the House and Senate formed separate committees to draft and review health care proposals. It wasn't until changes to the House bill insisted on by House Republicans who then turned around and voted against every change even when some where their ideas did House Democrats start doing things on their own. And when Senate Republicans followed House Republican's lead and became obstructionis did Senate Democrats start to get creative on how to "deem and pass" health care legislation.

For Republicans, it was a rehash of old "misinform, misdirect" tactics borne out of the 1920s, '60s and '90's. For Democrats, it was "try to make a concensus if you can; but if you can't, go it alone".
 
Boo Radley said:
We do not have the British system.
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thank goodness, because THAT single payer is "devastating and cruel"

or so says the bbc

still obama selected as his health care czar one donald berwick, an open proponent of "devastating and cruel" nhs

and an outspoken advocate of single payer's concommitant---RATIONING

President Obama to Make Recess Appointment of CMS Administrator - Political Punch

appointing berwick was really dumb

Though many on your side selectively choose clips and information
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says the person who links to whitehouse.gov, comedy central and SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA

LOL!
 
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Objective Voice said:
For Democrats, it was "try to make a concensus if you can; but if you can't, go it alone".
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well, they sure are alone

no one unequivocally will defend this pig

the slasher, in his most recent sotu, prioritized RACE TO THE TOP above the ahab-like obsession of his first 2 years

he didn't bring it up for a half hour, he then devoted seven piddly sentences to his signature issue, four of em negative

Now, I have heard rumors that a few of you still have concerns about our new health care law. So let me be the first to say that anything can be improved. If you have ideas about how to improve this law by making care better or more affordable, I am eager to work with you. We can start right now by correcting a flaw in the legislation that has placed an unnecessary bookkeeping burden on small businesses.

What I'm not willing to do -- what I'm not willing to do is go back to the days when insurance companies could deny someone coverage because of a preexisting condition.

I'm not willing to tell James Howard, a brain cancer patient from Texas, that his treatment might not be covered. I'm not willing to tell Jim Houser, a small business man from Oregon, that he has to go back to paying $5,000 more to cover his employees. As we speak, this law is making prescription drugs cheaper for seniors and giving uninsured students a chance to stay on their patients' -- parents' coverage.

So I say to this chamber tonight, instead of re-fighting the battles of the last two years, let's fix what needs fixing and let's move forward.
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Obama State Of The Union Speech 2011: FULL TEXT & VIDEO

fix what needs fixing?

you just radically redrew one sixth of the united states economy via senate reconciliation, you dummy, and it already needs fixing?

astonishingly incompetent

no, ZERO republicans voted for obamacare in congress for a reason

and they were returned and reinforced in record numbers last november by america's moms and dads for the same

vote obama, 2012?

obamacare is a republican idea?

good luck with all that
 
Objective Voice said:
First off, to Zimmer:

If you're going to use someone else's commentary to support your argument, I think it only fair and wise that you USE THE ENTIRE QUOTE so that people can fully understand the context of your argument. Towit, I'm referring to your post #22:
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I stand by what and how Friedman was quoted.

If you read anything from what Friedman had written about the US system before ObamaKare he called it a Communist system, and the root cause was government intrusion. As usual. But of course he would reverse his sentiments today because ObamaKare corrects all these negative intrusions... ROTFLOL.

.
 
Objective Voice said:
That's what the GOP want you to believe because that's what happened under Clinton's tenure when his administration wrote "HillaryCare". But drafting the PPACA didn't start out that way. Both the House and Senate formed separate committees to draft and review health care proposals. It wasn't until changes to the House bill insisted on by House Republicans who then turned around and voted against every change even when some where their ideas did House Democrats start doing things on their own. And when Senate Republicans followed House Republican's lead and became obstructionis did Senate Democrats start to get creative on how to "deem and pass" health care legislation.

For Republicans, it was a rehash of old "misinform, misdirect" tactics borne out of the 1920s, '60s and '90's. For Democrats, it was "try to make a concensus if you can; but if you can't, go it alone".
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funny you call yourself "objective"..

What the Dems did to shove Obamacare through bordered criminal.
Massachusetts of all places personally sent Scott Brown to halt the "shove it through" process so that we could at least get an explanation of what was IN it, never mind its likely impact. And the Dems bypassed the legal process in plain sight of us all...dont hide from that.

Obamacare wont fix anything, will cost trillions on the backs of those of us whom will continue to be raped by high premiums, and further divide the 'classes'...

its Welfare for healthcare, and dont try and argue that, its just silly
 
shades said:
What the Dems did to shove Obamacare through bordered criminal.
Massachusetts of all places personally sent Scott Brown to halt the "shove it through" process so that we could at least get an explanation of what was IN it, never mind its likely impact. And the Dems bypassed the legal process in plain sight of us all...dont hide from that.
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Shoved it through? The healthcare bill went through all the normal measures and was in the spotlight for a year. There aren't any secrets in it. They passed it with the 60 votes they needed to break the filibuster. You can criticize the bill of course but if you want to say it was shoved down our throats through illegal processes then you're just wrong.
 
when fdr and lbj passed their major reforms (soc sec, civil rights and medicare) they understood american politics well enough to appreciate they required significant congressional coverage from the opposition in order to realize such significant social change

indeed, more republicans proportionally voted for civil rights than did dems

barack the slasher aint no fdr, evidently

not even a lbj

indeed, when it comes to american politics, the slasher is so outta touch it's as if he's alien

obamacare, baby---it's all yours

seeya at the polls
 
roughdraft274 said:
Shoved it through? The healthcare bill went through all the normal measures and was in the spotlight for a year. There aren't any secrets in it. They passed it with the 60 votes they needed to break the filibuster. You can criticize the bill of course but if you want to say it was shoved down our throats through illegal processes then you're just wrong.
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what channel are you watching?
are you serious..

they couldnt pass it through, it was 59-41...Was it not clear what Scott Browns signifigance was.. I thought I was clear, but didnt need me to tell you, its a fact.
pay attention.. ill go over it real slow for you.

The bill wasnt explained, the final draft wasnt given time to even read much less understand, and never would have or did make it out of the senate..
So the dems pulled a procedural, technical, and yes criminal in this case fast one, being the scale of the measure, to revert back to the house bill, which had already passed, but wouldnt have if the voters, the PEOPLE could have gotten to it in time, as they did in the mid terms and put the GOP back in control..

you cant rewrite history, but I opine this clown of a President you so revere has you thinking you may.

And as I said earlier, its not you and your ilk we need to convince, you will vote Nobama even if he killed someone, and its not me and mine YOU need to convince because we wont vote for him even if he cures cancer.

but the middle, the independants, are a very smart lot.. they follow all of this I speak of very closely....and he needs them

we shall see
 
zimmer said:
I stand by what and how Friedman was quoted.

If you read anything from what Friedman had written about the US system before ObamaKare he called it a Communist system, and the root cause was government intrusion. As usual. But of course he would reverse his sentiments today because ObamaKare corrects all these negative intrusions... ROTFLOL.

.
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And he would be factually wrong. Completely and utterly wrong.
 
shades said:
what channel are you watching?
are you serious..

they couldnt pass it through, it was 59-41...
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Senate passes health-care bill, now must reconcile it with House
Vice President Biden presided over the 60 to 39 party-line vote, described as a historic milestone by senators on both sides of the aisle.
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I'm the one re-writing history? They voted on it and got 60, then later on there was a reconciliation bill passed by both the house and senate that only needed 50 votes that just changed a few minor things. It wasn't illegal by any means. At the end of the day, that actual healthcare bill was passed with 60 votes.

The final bill was nothing but rehashing of the same crap that has been gone through by everyone and their moms for a year before the bill passed. They didn't slide in any mysteries.

Like I said, you can criticize the bill but shoved down our throats it was not. You'd know that if you didn't get so caught up in the talking points that are fed to you.
 
roughdraft274 said:
you can criticize the bill
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you sure can

three quarters of a T in new taxes:

Director's Blog » Blog Archive » Additional Information on CBO’s Preliminary Analysis of H.R. 2

half trillion in cuts to medicare, all the while obama simultaneously expands its already teetering enrollment by millions:

Capitol Briefing - Senate votes to keep Medicare cuts

er costs increase:

ER visits, costs in Mass. climb - The Boston Globe

doctors refuse new medicare patients:

Finding a Doctor Who Accepts Medicare Isn’t Easy - NYTimes.com

the doc fix passes, another quarter tril unaccounted for:

Senate passes 1-year doc fix - The Hill's Healthwatch

another quarter T double counted:

Budget Office Rebuts Democratic Claims on Medicare (Update1) - Bloomberg

our already broken backed states are burdened with a quarter T in the form of brand new medicaid enrollees:

Governors balk over what healthcare bill will cost states - The Boston Globe

the university of virginia found that having NO INSURANCE left patients better off than those with medicaid

ASA: ASA 130th Annual Meeting Abstracts - Primary Payer Status Affects Mortality For Major Surgical Operations

live it, libs, love it

it's all yours
 
Boo Radley said:
Any logical and informed person who knows exactly what those words mean. :coffeepap
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So now Milton Freedman is unreasonable because you disagree with him? LOL! Good GAWD Joe, Just stop, your looking foolish now.


j-mac
 
Boo Radley said:
And he would be factually wrong. Completely and utterly wrong.
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Oh... really? And how is he wrong, and what socialist countries have grand success stories. Why do Kanuckistani's come over the border, and why is their system in shambles after less than a half century?

.
 
zimmer said:
Oh... really? And how is he wrong, and what socialist countries have grand success stories. Why do Kanuckistani's come over the border, and why is their system in shambles after less than a half century?

.
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He's wrong if he suggests we have a system that is in anyway communist like. :roll:
 
Boo Radley said:
Any logical and informed person
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you mean the kind of person who links to sydney, australia, to make some point about teacher retention in new york?

LOL!
 
Boo Radley said:
He's wrong if he suggests we have a system that is in anyway communist like. :roll:
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Now wait a minute, I remember during the never ending debate concerning health care, you were one of the people thanking others, and possibly indeed yourself making the point that we already had socialist type entitlement programs. So when you say "in any way" are you forgetting that?


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Now wait a minute, I remember during the never ending debate concerning health care, you were one of the people thanking others, and possibly indeed yourself making the point that we already had socialist type entitlement programs. So when you say "in any way" are you forgetting that?


j-mac
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I think you remember wrong. We have programs that are communial in nature, but they do not equal socialism or communism. We have regulations in business, but are not socalistic or communistic. People who believe as Zimmer do make a leap, suggesting that any type of geroup effort makes something completely socalistic. This would be contrary to the definition of socialism and communicsm.
 
Boo Radley said:
I think you remember wrong. We have programs that are communial in nature, but they do not equal socialism or communism. We have regulations in business, but are not socalistic or communistic. People who believe as Zimmer do make a leap, suggesting that any type of geroup effort makes something completely socalistic. This would be contrary to the definition of socialism and communicsm.
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"Completely"? I don't think I said that. But to say that things like Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security are in no way, Using your words, Socialistic is laughable...In fact let's take Social Security as an example, How is that funded? Not by what has been with held over the years from the person that is collecting it, but rather from 3 or more current working people contributing to this one person collecting the benefit. That is by defination redistribution of wealth.

j-mac
 
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