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Thread: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

  1. #21
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    What would be smart is to get government out of the healthkare business. It's a Communist System with Communist results.

    .
    Speaking of extreme hyperbole . . . .

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Speaking of extreme hyperbole . . . .
    ROTFLOL... I merely paraphrased Milton Friedman (see below), and he and his Chicago School and Austrian School of Economics have a pretty good record, and Milton Friedman calls the system Socialist-Communist and Communist. It is what it is.

    MF: Yes, in the field of medical care. We have a socialist-communist system of distributing medical care. Instead of letting people hire their own physicians and pay them, no one pays his or her own medical bills. Instead, there's a third party payment system. It is a communist system and it has a communist result. Despite this, we've had numerous miracles in medical science. From the discovery of penicillin, to new surgical techniques, to MRIs and CAT scans, the last 30 or 40 years have been a period of miraculous change in medical science. On the other hand, we've seen costs skyrocket. Nobody is happy: physicians don't like it, patients don't like it. Why? Because none of them are responsible for themselves. You no longer have a situation in which a patient chooses a physician, receives a service, gets charged, and pays for it. There is no direct relation between the patient and the physician. The physician is an employee of an insurance company or an employee of the government. Today, a third party pays the bills. As a result, no one who visits the doctor asks what the charge is going to be—somebody else is going to take care of that. The end result is third party payment and, worst of all, third party treatment.

    Hillsdale College - Imprimis Issue
    This quote was before the dung called ObamaKare as Friedman died in 2006... now we have government picking favorites too, assisting those with connections... just like in the USSR. It's Animal Farm Kare.

    Would you like to try again?

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 05-10-11 at 01:20 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    [
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    ROTFLOL... I merely paraphrased Milton Friedman (see below), and he and his Chicago School and Austrian School of Economics have a pretty good record, and Milton Friedman calls the system Socialist-Communist and Communist. It is what it is.


    Would you like to try again?

    .
    He was talking about insurance companies, not government.

    Seriously, is it that hard to read your own source? Lord.
    Last edited by roughdraft274; 05-10-11 at 01:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    [

    He was talking about insurance companies, not government.

    Seriously, is it that hard to read your own source? Lord.
    Obama links his health care plan to budget, and deficit constantly, now you want them seperated at will, which highlights the dishonesty of his, and liberal arguments on the subject...Much like taxing the rich more will solve all problems.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Obama links his health care plan to budget, and deficit constantly, now you want them seperated at will, which highlights the dishonesty of his, and liberal arguments on the subject...Much like taxing the rich more will solve all problems.


    j-mac
    Do you understand the difference between the countries budget and deficit and a businesses budget and profits?

    Saying that a bill will save the country money is not the same as saying it will save businesses money. Find a link where Obama said that businesses will save lots of money right off the bat because of this legislation and you'll have a point. Until then you're talking about two different things.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    If the healthcare bill was such a popular measure with the american people, there should not be such a fight. Maybe this idea is not so great after all. jmo
    My family is more important than my party.
    -Zell Miller

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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    [

    He was talking about insurance companies, not government.

    Seriously, is it that hard to read your own source? Lord.
    You have got to be kidding, but I know you aren't.
    What is ObamaKare but massive intrusion?

    Friedman spoke about government growth and intrusion all the time... what is ObamaKare but that, and what caused the system to go Commi in the first place?
    In 2001 the economist Milton Friedman read up on health care, discovered that the inefficiencies in our system trace back to a single policy mistake, worked out a policy test that would help us correct it and then described his findings in a few thousand words of plain English.

    Because, Friedman saw, most payments for medical care are made not by the patients who receive the care but by third parties, typically employers. Since, in Friedman's phrase, "nobody spends somebody else's money as wisely as he spends his own," this third-payer system by its very nature introduces inefficiencies throughout the health care system.

    The reason for this wasteful third-party system? The tax code. Money spent on health care is exempt from the income tax only if the health care is provided through an employer. "We have become so accustomed to employer-provided medical care," Friedman wrote, "that we regard it as part of the natural order. Yet it is thoroughly illogical."

    Medical Analysis By Milton Friedman - Forbes.com
    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    What would be smart is to get government out of the healthkare business. We have a Communist System with Communist results.

    .
    You mean like in...

    1 France - Universal Coverage
    2 Italy - publicly run and funded
    3 San Marino - state funded
    4 Andorra - similar to French system
    5 Malta - publicly funded
    6 Singapore - universal health care
    7 Spain - free or low cost
    8 Oman - free access to all
    9 Austria - generous social system that has reduced spending in recent years
    10 Japan - provides healthcare services, including screening examinations, prenatal care and infectious disease control, with the patient accepting responsibility for 30% of these costs while the government pays the remaining 70%.


    BTW Zimmer - on that WHO list, we rank 37...

    1.The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is almost twice as expensive as every other developed nation. This is largely due to administrative costs which account for 19-25% of healthcare costs, and up to 34% at for-profit hospitals.

    2.Other than South Africa, America is the only developed country in the world that does not provide healthcare for all of its citizens.

    3.Yet, the US ranks 26th in infant mortality and 24th in the number of healthy years a person can expect to live - putting America’s healthcare system in the company of Cuba and Slovenia rather than Canada and Western European nations.

    4.And, despite ludicrous right-wing anecdotal claims of high dissatisfaction among those who live in countries with universal healthcare, the reality is that, with the exception of Italy, Americans are more dissatisfied with their healthcare than are the citizens of every other developed nation, including England, France, Germany, and Canada. Moreover, US doctors spend less time with patients that do doctors in other nations.
    So, for all the money we spend, we kill more living breathing baby's than Slovenia... How come this doesn't bother the far-right? They only care about the non-vaible 5-10 inch embryo.

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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Zimmer, no amount of facts will change the mind of someone drunk of the liberal kool aid.

    First they discredit the source. If that fails, they move the goalposts, if that fails they throw up some other bull**** on the board that makes you say WTF are you talking about? And now the thread is off topic and long lost is the original bull**** argument made by the left.

    It's known as "Modus Operendi"

    When you have a whacko quoting MALTA'S health care system, OMG. Since when does Malta have millions of illegal immigrants jumping fences and swimming rivers to get into their country to get free health care?

    Make a decent argument man, for real. Your **** don't hold water.

    we kill more living breathing baby's than Slovenia
    Oh stop it, you couldn't even find Slovenia on a map!
    Last edited by dontworrybehappy; 05-10-11 at 01:46 PM.

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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Read the following and you will see the damage government has done, and what one wise anti-Communist wrote about our Communist system with another Free Marketeer adding his insights.

    In a chapter in his novel "The Cancer Ward" titled "The Old Doctor," Alexander Solzhenitsyn compares "private medical practice" with "universal, free, public health service"...

    Mr. Solzhenitsyn himself had no personal experience on which to base his account and yet, in what I have long regarded as a striking example of creative imagination, ...

    Lyudmila Afanasyevna: "All right, but how many of these family doctors would be needed? They just can't be fitted into our system of universal, free, public health services."

    Dr. Oreschenkov: "Universal and public—yes, they could. Free, no."

    Lyudmila Afanasyevna: "But the fact that it is free is our greatest achievement."

    Dr. Oreschenkov: "Is it such a great achievement? What do you mean by 'free'? The doctors don't work without pay. It's just that the patient doesn't pay them, they're paid out of the public budget. The public budget comes from these same patients. Treatment isn't free, it's just depersonalized. If the cost of it were left with the patient, he'd turn the ten rubles over and over in his hands. But when he really needed help he'd come to the doctor five times over. . . .

    ...everywhere there's a schedule, a quota the doctors have to meet; next! . . . ...and the doctor's job is to catch the frauds. Doctor and patient as enemies—is that medicine?"

    ...His first responsibility is to the managed care entity that hires him. He is not engaged in the kind of private medical practice that Dr. Oreschenkov valued so highly.

    For the first 30 years of my life, until World War II, that kind of practice was the norm. Individuals were responsible for their own medical care. They could pay for it out-of-pocket or they could buy insurance. "Sliding scale" fees plus professional ethics assured that the poor got care...

    Because private expenditures on health care are not exempt from income tax, almost all employees now receive health care coverage from their employers, leading to problems of portability, third party payment and rising costs that have become increasingly serious. Of course, the cost of medical care comes out of wages, but out of before-tax rather than after-tax wages, so that the employee receives what he or she regards as a higher real wage for the same cost to the employer.

    A second major change was the enactment of Medicare and Medicaid in 1965. These added another large slice of the population... was mostly paid by a third party, providing little incentive to economize on medical care. The resulting dramatic rise in expenditures on medical care...

    Milton Friedman: A Way Out of Soviet-Style Health Care - WSJ.com
    Last edited by zimmer; 05-10-11 at 01:43 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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