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Thread: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

  1. #141
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Fact is, Democrats were cooperative w/Republicans on crafting health care reform legislation until Republicans become obstructionist about it.

    Stop! Stop right there....Revision this soon after the lie is a dumb tactic, you are smarter than to try and do it....

    So far, that's where things stand with the final negotiations of the healthcare legislation, just as it had for much of the issue's legislative journey. Even while Reid declared in November that transparency is "one of the guiding principles of health insurance reform," Democrats sought to work out the final details of the bill in secret and rush a new bill through before the American people know what hit them.

    Republicans, all too familiar to being locked out by Democrats, aren't holding their breath—and Lamb's letter has yet to receive a reply. C-SPAN's open call for full transparency is a highly unusual move for a media organization that steadfastly refuses to take sides, demonstrating how far Democrats have gone in cloaking the healthcare bill with more secrecy than even the Washington Wizards locker room.

    C-SPAN Demands Democrats Open Secret Health Reform Talks - Doug Heye (usnews.com)

    Reid didn't stop at just Repubs, hell, he locked out C-SPAN.....Now you libs forgett.



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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Let me wrap up this short debate we just had.

    Shades: They shoved it down our throats illegally!
    Roughdraft:They got 60 votes and it was debated for a year under a national spotlight. It wasn't rammed through.
    Shades: They never got 60 votes!
    Roughdraft: Yes they did and heres proof.
    Shades: They used deem and pass!
    Roughdraft: No they didn't and here's proof.
    Shades: Hmph, liberals are impossible to talk to!

    You were wrong on damn near everything you said or thought. Meanwhile through the whole process you were acting as if I'm the idiot while I'm correcting you with ample proof. Read a book dude. Read a newspaper. Read anything for that matter. Breath some fresh air and put away the koolaid.

    Admit that they didn't use any illegal processes, they did have 60 votes for the main healthcare bill, and that they didn't use deem and pass and we can continue but unless you can admit the blatantly obvious truth then I'm done debating with someone that refuses to accept 2+2=4.
    more namecalling?
    nice

    care to answer my question?
    what will Obamacare do for those of us paying for it?

    simple question, and really what is at the root of us NOT WANTING IT

    and stop with the name calling, makes you look like 12

  3. #143
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    and while you are trying to come up with some good this bill will do, it will take a while so...read this real slow....

    In the week before the vote, Barack Obama held private meetings or telephone conversations with 64 different congressmen. At least one of them, Rep. Jim Costa (D-Calif.), bragged publicly that he used his face time with the president to demand some “special consideration” for his Central Valley district. On March 16, the Interior Department came through, announcing that the water allocation there would be increased from 5 percent to 25 percent. On Saturday, Costa—a former no vote—said he had flipped to yes. But deal-doing had nothing to do with it, of course.

    The president also hopped aboard Air Force One and flew to rallies in states where wavering House Democrats resided. He showed up in Pennsylvania (home to five uncommitted votes), Missouri (three wavering Democrats), Ohio (eight undeclared congressmen) and Virginia (four).

    The president’s advance men made sure Obama would be talking to friendly crowds. And of course the local media was out in droves. So the Left could be assured of plenty of favorable coverage.

    One person who would be missing from the show was the local congressman. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wasn’t about to allow members of the House to go home until a vote was taken. No Spring Break for those guys and gals! The speaker knew she didn’t dare risk letting representatives go home then. Otherwise, too many would see first-hand just how opposed most of their constituents were to the measure.

    While the president used the honey of his rhetoric and the promise of government largesse to win votes, political heavies such as the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) and Moveon.org used threats. Their message was short and simple: Vote no on Obamacare and we’ll find someone else to take your place in Congress.

    But all of the bullying, bluffs and bluster wasn’t enough. Kimberley Strassel, who writes the Potomac Watch column for the Wall Street Journal, had been following this story for months. The day after that fateful vote, she reported, “By the weekend, all the pressure and threats and bribes had left the speaker three to five votes short.”

    As it happened, there were half-a-dozen votes just waiting to be plucked. All the House leadership had to do to get them was agree to include a line in the legislation saying that no Federal funds would be used to provide abortions. The danger was that if they agreed they’d lose more than six votes among the pro-abortion crowd in the House.

    I don’t know who came up with the compromise, but it was a dandy. The language of the legislation wouldn’t be changed—but the president promised to issue an executive order afterwards, stating that no Federal funds provided by the bill could be used for abortions.

    That was all it took for Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) to fold like an accordion. On Sunday afternoon he announced that he and five other colleagues would now support the legislation.

    Pro-abortion supporters chortled that such an executive order wouldn’t change a thing. Bart and his buddies had been duped. One pro-life congressman was so upset that he shouted out “baby killer!” during the debate on the House floor.

    But, no matter. The dirty deed was done. And within hours, the most radical healthcare legislation in history had been approved by the House of Representatives.

    Because the powers-that-be decided to use a sneaky parliamentary procedure called “reconciliation” to pass the measure, that was all it took. There would be no chance for opponents to stop it in the Senate, despite the victory of Scott Brown in Massachusetts. (Click here to see my tirade two weeks ago, called Hey Washington—Reconcile This)

    During and after the debate I collected a basketful of quotes by people on both sides of the issue. I’ll spare you all of the gleeful smugness of the victors and most of the dire warnings from the losers. But let me share with you my favorite, which comes from Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas):

    “It was truly a sad weekend on the House floor as we witnessed the further dismantling of the Constitution, disregard of the will of the people, explosive expansion of the reach of government, unprecedented corporate favoritism, and the impending end of quality healthcare as we know it….

    “Of course, the most troubling aspect of this bill is that it is so blatantly unconstitutional and contrary to the ideals of liberty. Nowhere in the Constitution is there anything approaching authority for the Federal government to do any of this.”

  4. #144
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    more namecalling?
    nice

    care to answer my question?
    what will Obamacare do for those of us paying for it?

    simple question, and really what is at the root of us NOT WANTING IT

    and stop with the name calling, makes you look like 12
    Exactly what names did I call you? Got a problem with it report my post and let a mod look at it.

    I'm not jumping off to other topics unless I figure out whether youre someone that would actually admit that they are wrong, like on the three thigs I've asked you to admit that you're wrong on, mostly because you are obviously wrong. You continually jumping from subject to subject isn't good for debating period. Lets resolve the other stuff first then start something new.

    Did the Dem's get 60 votes for the actual healthcare bill?

    Did they use any illegal procedures? If so name them?

    Did the use deem and pass? A link stating that they did use it?
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  5. #145
    Advisor shades's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Exactly what names did I call you? Got a problem with it report my post and let a mod look at it.

    I'm not jumping off to other topics unless I figure out whether youre someone that would actually admit that they are wrong, like on the three thigs I've asked you to admit that you're wrong on, mostly because you are obviously wrong. You continually jumping from subject to subject isn't good for debating period. Lets resolve the other stuff first then start something new.

    Did the Dem's get 60 votes for the actual healthcare bill?

    Did they use any illegal procedures? If so name them?

    Did the use deem and pass? A link stating that they did use it?

    Where I grew up

    Read a book dude. Read a newspaper. Read anything for that matter. Breath some fresh air and put away the koolaid. = name calling like a little girl would that knew she could get away with it because of her stature.
    I run into guys like you all the time.. honestly, if you were standing in front of me would you look me in the eye and say "Read a book dude. Read a newspaper. Read anything for that matter. Breath some fresh air and put away the koolaid."

    of course not, so dont do it in cyberspace, like I said it makes you look 12.
    but
    lets put that aside, because honestly I have no beef with you, it serves no purpose.

    on topic, I dont think I said they did anything illegal, it was unethical and back door, and for something this large it shouldnt be done that way. not in the America i grew up in.. you debate, and if a bill this far reaching runs into as much opposition and angst in the public opinion, you dont pass it.. dictators do that kind of thing.

    and if you read my last article above and dont have a problem with any of that, then maybe I'm not talking to an American. not an American that will be part of the solution to bring this country back to what it once was and can be..

    put the divide in this country into two seperate "villages", and I'll wager in a very short time you will be asking to come live in mine after you get to know your neighbors..
    think about that, and stop with the grandstanding, and offer us what in Gods name this health care "reform" will do for me, short term or long term and I'll gladly admit I'm "wrong" if that will make you feel better.
    And yea, I said what will it do for ME... thats not selfish, its my money too. AND I'll still be paying ridiculous premiums to boot.

  6. #146
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    You mean like in...

    1 France - Universal Coverage
    2 Italy - publicly run and funded
    3 San Marino - state funded
    4 Andorra - similar to French system
    5 Malta - publicly funded
    6 Singapore - universal health care
    7 Spain - free or low cost
    8 Oman - free access to all
    9 Austria - generous social system that has reduced spending in recent years
    10 Japan - provides healthcare services, including screening examinations, prenatal care and infectious disease control, with the patient accepting responsibility for 30% of these costs while the government pays the remaining 70%.


    BTW Zimmer - on that WHO list, we rank 37...



    So, for all the money we spend, we kill more living breathing baby's than Slovenia... How come this doesn't bother the far-right? They only care about the non-vaible 5-10 inch embryo.
    What do you know, many of the countries you've listed there are flat broke, not that it is all attainable and to blame on UHC, but other socialistic policies as well.

    Why is nobody looking toward applying the reform artist of Mitch Daniels health care reform in Indiana? He lowered health care cost by an astounding 11% ....

    Mitch Daniels: Healthcare Reform Hoosier Stylee JoHNBRoDiGaNDoTCoM
    "It is a sad day in society when people adjust the facts to fit their beliefs, rather than adjust their beliefs to fit the facts."
    Libertarian/Conservative/Christian Beliefs

  7. #147
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    Where I grew up

    Read a book dude. Read a newspaper. Read anything for that matter. Breath some fresh air and put away the koolaid. = name calling like a little girl would that knew she could get away with it because of her stature.
    I run into guys like you all the time.. honestly, if you were standing in front of me would you look me in the eye and say "Read a book dude. Read a newspaper. Read anything for that matter. Breath some fresh air and put away the koolaid."

    of course not, so dont do it in cyberspace, like I said it makes you look 12.
    but
    lets put that aside, because honestly I have no beef with you, it serves no purpose.
    I told you all of that because it's true. You complained about the deem and pass rule THAT WASN'T EVEN USED! You complained that they didn't get 60 votes when they obviously did. You have no clue what you're talking about here which is why you started by complaining about all those things and now reverting back to saying that they didn't do anything illegal, they just weren't nice enough about it. I don't care about whether you think they were nice about it. They got 60 votes. That's what's needed. If you think they broke laws then we can talk about that but it appears you just did a complete 180 and are now admitting you were wrong on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    on topic, I dont think I said they did anything illegal, it was unethical and back door, and for something this large it shouldnt be done that way. not in the America i grew up in.. you debate, and if a bill this far reaching runs into as much opposition and angst in the public opinion, you dont pass it.. dictators do that kind of thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by shades from earlier View Post
    The bill wasnt explained, the final draft wasnt given time to even read much less understand, and never would have or did make it out of the senate..
    So the dems pulled a procedural, technical, and yes criminal in this case fast one,
    You don't think you said they did anything illegal? You're wrong again. And then you wonder why I don't take you very seriously. You don't know what you're talking about, you have no idea what you've said, you post links saying that they might use deem and pass even though they never did etc... You'll find anything and everything to complain about even if it never happened. We have gotten into factual arguments here. There are very easy yes or no answers and if you and I can't reach a conclusion as to whether these very obvious things are true or false then I don't see any reason in going off and debating you in the finer points of individual mandates and healthcare exchanges.
    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    and if you read my last article above and dont have a problem with any of that, then maybe I'm not talking to an American. not an American that will be part of the solution to bring this country back to what it once was and can be..
    Oh lord. I'm not american? Get over yourself. This bill was debated for ages. Every nook and cranny of this thing was discussed on every channel for a year. It was passed legally with a super majority in the senate. Politics isn't about making sure the other side doesn't get upset. Like I said, if you're only problem is that they weren't nice about it then it seems like we have no reason to sit here and debate cause I could care less how upset it makes you when people on the other side of the isle pass bills. That whole "you're not an american" thing makes you sound like a drunk yokel.
    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    put the divide in this country into two seperate "villages", and I'll wager in a very short time you will be asking to come live in mine after you get to know your neighbors..
    think about that, and stop with the grandstanding, and offer us what in Gods name this health care "reform" will do for me, short term or long term and I'll gladly admit I'm "wrong" if that will make you feel better.
    And yea, I said what will it do for ME... thats not selfish, its my money too. AND I'll still be paying ridiculous premiums to boot.
    The healthcare bill was filled with common sense solutions. Many of these ideas (individual mandate, etc.) were what the Republicans wanted to do a decade ago.
    Like I said dude. Admit they got 60 votes and didn't use the deem and pass. It looks like you finally wrapped your head around the idea that they didn't do anything illegal, now lets go for the other two.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  8. #148
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Stop! Stop right there....Revision this soon after the lie is a dumb tactic, you are smarter than to try and do it....




    Reid didn't stop at just Repubs, hell, he locked out C-SPAN.....Now you libs forgett.



    j-mac
    What you provide doesn't dispute him. What you link happened after Republicans made it clear they were not going to work with Democrats.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #149
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I told you all of that because it's true.
    I'd love to see you say things like that on the street to real people that can knock you on your ass. I doubt you'd be so bold.

    You complained about the deem and pass rule THAT WASN'T EVEN USED!
    That was their next step. They even said as much publicly. The vote for Obamacare was a party line vote that Obama had to bribe, and Reed had to threaten to get into line. And if that wasn't good enough, did he make the process transparent? NO, did he ensure that people not only understood what was in it, but had time online to read it like he promised? NO, did he use the majorities in both house and senate to ram this through at 1 a.m., locking out C-SPAN to hide it from the eyes of the people? YES he did. So don't even attempt to portray this as some kind of bipartisan achievement that he should be praised for. He used, demo's used thug, heavy handed tactics to get this done and you damn well know it.

    If you think they broke laws then we can talk about that
    If the case is won in the SCOTUS that they overstepped their constitutional bounds by requiring that people purchase a product, then yes, they will have violated the constitution, and thus broken law. So I wouldn't be yelling too loudly yet that no law was broken, we don't know the disposition of that.


    The healthcare bill was filled with common sense solutions. Many of these ideas (individual mandate, etc.) were what the Republicans wanted to do a decade ago.
    This part is pure spin as well. Trying to lay this off on republicans is the lowest, and most cowardly thing I have seen in defense of this plan yet, and really shows its weakness. If it were so strong a plan, and so many were behind it like you seem to say, then why does this little lie, I mean revelation only come out now? Come on, your reaching, and desperate here. Obamacare is unpopular, and my guess is that before it gets smacked down in the SC they will table the law, in the interest of doing what the people want.....

    Then you all go silent.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  10. #150
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What you provide doesn't dispute him. What you link happened after Republicans made it clear they were not going to work with Democrats.
    The demo's were locking out repubs from talks on the structure of the law when it was in bill stage. The only "ideas" they were taking from repubs, or claiming that they got from them were ones that they could hand around their necks later.

    This law is a disaster. Your hero at work.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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