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Thread: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

  1. #131
    Advisor shades's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    They never used this tactic. People talked about it but it was never used. Seriously. Were you under a rock for that whole debate?

    Self-executing rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Do you not understand that this article of yours was written before the bill was even passed? It was never used. Get over it. You're wrong, and obviously and demonstrably so.
    Reports The Associated Press:

    Obama is expected to sign the larger bill early this week.

    The complicated two-step process was made necessary because Senate Democrats lost their filibuster-proof supermajority in a special election in January, a setback that caused even some Democratic lawmakers to pronounce the yearlong health care effort dead. Under the relentless prodding of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, in particular, it was gradually revived, and the fix-it bill will be considered under fast-track Senate rules that don’t allow minority party filibusters.

    “We will be joining those who established Social Security, Medicare and now, tonight, health care for all Americans,” said Pelosi, D-Calif., partner to Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in the grueling campaign to pass the legislation.

    “This is the civil rights act of the 21st century,” added Rep. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, the top-ranking black member of the House.

    GOP lawmakers attacked the legislation as everything from a government takeover to the beginning of totalitarianism, and none voted in favor. “Hell no!” Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, shouted in a fiery speech opposing the legislation. “We have failed to listen to America and we have failed to reflect the will of our constituents.”

    Thirty-four Democrats also voted “no” on the Senate-passed bill.

  2. #132
    ThunderCougarFalconBird
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    by the time it went back to the senate for the final vote after it came back from the house with revisions, Scott Brown was in town..
    so they bypassed the senate vote and passed the house bill..

    a procedural slight of hand

    just stop it
    Did they use deem and pass?
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  3. #133
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    Reports The Associated Press:

    Obama is expected to sign the larger bill early this week.

    The complicated two-step process was made necessary because Senate Democrats lost their filibuster-proof supermajority in a special election in January, a setback that caused even some Democratic lawmakers to pronounce the yearlong health care effort dead. Under the relentless prodding of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, in particular, it was gradually revived, and the fix-it bill will be considered under fast-track Senate rules that don’t allow minority party filibusters.

    “We will be joining those who established Social Security, Medicare and now, tonight, health care for all Americans,” said Pelosi, D-Calif., partner to Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in the grueling campaign to pass the legislation.

    “This is the civil rights act of the 21st century,” added Rep. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina, the top-ranking black member of the House.

    GOP lawmakers attacked the legislation as everything from a government takeover to the beginning of totalitarianism, and none voted in favor. “Hell no!” Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, shouted in a fiery speech opposing the legislation. “We have failed to listen to America and we have failed to reflect the will of our constituents.”

    Thirty-four Democrats also voted “no” on the Senate-passed bill.
    Are you mad because they only needed 50 votes or because they used deem and pass? Do you even know what youre arguing?
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  4. #134
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Your link is describing something that the House could have done, not what they did. Read it for yourself.

    Could... Could... Could... in case you didn't see it the first time. Here's numerous links showing you that it was passed with 60 votes in the senate...

    Blance Lambert Lincoln Votes Yes On Healthcare
    Senate Dems reach 60 votes for health care bill - USATODAY.com
    Reid Gets 60 Votes for Health Care Debate - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
    Democrats Get Their 60 Votes for Health Care. Now What? - Derek Thompson - Business - The Atlantic

    Are you still denying that they passed it with 60 votes? Why are you linking to stuff that was written BEFORE the bill was even passed? What the hell bypassed normal procedure? You seem to be upset at something that you don't understand at all and really don't want to understand.
    It may well have followed "procedure" but fell far short of the so called transpanency that Obama, and demo's promised in campaigning to take the offices they held. Maybe you need a refresher.

    After the middle-of-the-night vote, there will be a maximum of 30 hours debate on the amendment. Then there will be a 30-hour period for a Republican substitute bill, followed by a 30-hour period on the final bill. Reid's schedule calls for a final, final vote on the health care measure to take place at about 7 p.m. on Christmas Eve. Voila! The bill will be passed by Christmas. That couldn't be done unless the Reid Amendment cloture vote were held in the earliest hours of Monday morning, setting off the final chain of votes and waiting periods. "This is purely to satisfy a self-imposed, arbitrary deadline," says the GOP aide.

    By the way, when the 1 a.m. vote took place, the Reid Amendment had been public for about 36 hours, and the public had not had a single business day to examine it. "Make no mistake," said Minority Leader Mitch McConnell a few minutes before the vote. "If the people who wrote this bill were proud of it, they wouldn't be forcing this vote in the dead of night." Referring to the Nelson buy-off and other special arrangements in the bill, McConnell said few people would have imagined that the health care debate would have ended "with a couple of cheap deals and a rushed vote at one o'clock in the morning."

    But that's what happened. In the end, to no one's surprise, the Reid Amendment moved ahead, 60-40, on a straight party-line vote. Democrats can blame Sen. Coburn and Republicans all they like, but the fact is, there is no reason, beyond the Christmas deadline, that the vote had to take place at 1 a.m.

    Read more at the Washington Examiner: Who's responsible for the Senate's middle-of-the-night vote? | Byron York | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner
    Not the actions of a policy that you libs thought was popular no doubt.

    j-mac
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    Anyone opposing AffordableCare is either a stooge for the plutocrats or a dupe. We need this law. It is the only way America can prosper. Without it, American companies will continue to export jobs and that means economic devastation for all Americans.
    You were born under a rock, a very stupid rock. Explain exactly how spending billions will make us prosper. Exporting jobs has absolutely NOTHING to do with healthcare. God you are dumb, but then I see "Very Liberal" as your tag, so why should I expect anything different.

  6. #136
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It may well have followed "procedure" but fell far short of the so called transpanency that Obama, and demo's promised in campaigning to take the offices they held. Maybe you need a refresher.



    Not the actions of a policy that you libs thought was popular no doubt.

    j-mac
    We weren't debating how transparent the process was J-Mac. Honestly I could care less. I think the healthcare bill was a good thing and as long as they passed it legally i could care less how butthurt it makes some conservatives.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  7. #137
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Shoved it through? The healthcare bill went through all the normal measures and was in the spotlight for a year. There aren't any secrets in it. They passed it with the 60 votes they needed to break the filibuster. You can criticize the bill of course but if you want to say it was shoved down our throats through illegal processes then you're just wrong.
    Fact is, Democrats were cooperative w/Republicans on crafting health care reform legislation until Republicans become obstructionist about it. The People had plenty of time to debate the issues. Many Republican ideas are in the reform law including the state-sponsored health insurance exchanges and the individual mandate. That I can't stress enough; it was a Republican idea long before it was a Democrat idea. So, how those on the Right can claim "unfair" or that they were kept out of the loop is just absurd. But the Dems cried foul when Reps wrote laws behind closed doors under Reagan; I guess it only fair that they cried foul when the Dems did it under Obama.

    "Times may change but some things remain the same."

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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    We weren't debating how transparent the process was J-Mac. Honestly I could care less. I think the healthcare bill was a good thing and as long as they passed it legally i could care less how butthurt it makes some conservatives.
    And the legallity of that is what is in the courts now, and HC not fairing too well I see. But good to see that you are at least honest in that you could care less what the people want, as long as you ram your crap through....Is that what was promised? People will remember in '12


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    they are impossible to talk to, they see what they want to see.

    the 2012 election spoke volumes not seen since the end of the new deal... America sees what is happening, the back door deals, the procedural cramming.
    Unions and other lobbyists have been given "waivers" on this monstrosity..
    Obamacare has no chance in hell of ever standing..

    just a matter of time... the states will do it one at a time if they have to..

    and no one defending Obamacare has yet to explain how its going to help me, us, the ones paying the bills..

    i pay 8200.oo a year for my family plan through my employer..

    whats the upside for me? fair question being i will be paying for Obamacare..

    lets stop arguing how it got through and explain to me, to us..please..the upside

    Im all ears

  10. #140
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    Re: Obama administration fights to save healthcare law

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    lets stop arguing how it got through and explain to me, to us..please..the upside

    Im all ears
    Let me wrap up this short debate we just had.

    Shades: They shoved it down our throats illegally!
    Roughdraft:They got 60 votes and it was debated for a year under a national spotlight. It wasn't rammed through.
    Shades: They never got 60 votes!
    Roughdraft: Yes they did and heres proof.
    Shades: They used deem and pass!
    Roughdraft: No they didn't and here's proof.
    Shades: Hmph, liberals are impossible to talk to!

    You were wrong on damn near everything you said or thought. Meanwhile through the whole process you were acting as if I'm the idiot while I'm correcting you with ample proof. Read a book dude. Read a newspaper. Read anything for that matter. Breath some fresh air and put away the koolaid.

    Admit that they didn't use any illegal processes, they did have 60 votes for the main healthcare bill, and that they didn't use deem and pass and we can continue but unless you can admit the blatantly obvious truth then I'm done debating with someone that refuses to accept 2+2=4.
    Last edited by roughdraft274; 05-12-11 at 05:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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