• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Can’t Read

Gill said:
Why not?? Most of the rest of the world had no pensions and seem to get by just fine.
Click to expand...

Most of the rest of the world except for Western Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, and other first world nations. Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Paraguay, Haiti has no pensions. People there are doing just fi... what? not enough to eat, no clean water, no medical care? Most people don't live long enough to need a pension? Oh, never mind.
 
Gill said:
We're doing just fine thank you. Less than 15% of Americans have pensions these days.
Click to expand...

I think you have your numbers a little off:

Fewer than half of U.S. workers participate in any kind of employment-based retirement plan. Just 40.4 percent of employees utilized a 401(k) or pension in 2008, down from 41.5 percent in 2007, according to a recent study by the Employee Benefit Research Institute. That translates to about 63.7 million workers who saved for retirement through a workplace program last year, considerably below the 67.1 million employees who participated in 2000.

Half of Americans Don

Your number seems more like one I saw where workers don't see their 401's as their prmary retriement plan. However, I also saw a poll where most want one, and those with them worry about employers taking them away.

But, to be clear, you think pension is a bad thing? Can you explain why?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Most of the rest of the world except for Western Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, and other first world nations. Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Paraguay, Haiti has no pensions. People there are doing just fi... what? not enough to eat, no clean water, no medical care? Most people don't live long enough to need a pension? Oh, never mind.
Click to expand...

The "pension" in most other countries is actually the same as our social security system.
 
Boo Radley said:
I think you have your numbers a little off:

Fewer than half of U.S. workers participate in any kind of employment-based retirement plan. Just 40.4 percent of employees utilized a 401(k) or pension in 2008, down from 41.5 percent in 2007, according to a recent study by the Employee Benefit Research Institute. That translates to about 63.7 million workers who saved for retirement through a workplace program last year, considerably below the 67.1 million employees who participated in 2000.

Half of Americans Don

Your number seems more like one I saw where workers don't see their 401's as their prmary retriement plan. However, I also saw a poll where most want one, and those with them worry about employers taking them away.

But, to be clear, you think pension is a bad thing? Can you explain why?
Click to expand...

You're confusing pensions with 401K. Completely different.
 
Boo Radley said:
Really? I have one. How are those doing without them?
Click to expand...

Perhaps they would be doing better providing for their own retirement............

..........if they werent so damn broke after paying for yours..........
.
.
.
.
 
Badmutha said:
Perhaps they would be doing better providing for their own retirement............

..........if they werent so damn broke after paying for yours..........
.
.
.
.
Click to expand...

Hardly. You should research our system here before you go stupid. :coffeepap
 
Boo Radley said:
really, isn't my 401K my pension?
Click to expand...

No, not at all. It's part of your compensation package, and the interest earned is solely the result of the market. Those contributions are made based on a matching percentage, and they are CAPPED at $22,000 per year, most of which is your money, not the matching. Most people put in less than $5K per year, so the matching is only a few dollars.

Paying people indefinitely that are not contributing at all to their former employers is the death knell for a company. That's what has happened to the auto makers.

A pension dishes out, in the instance of auto workers, more than $100K every year until the former employee dies, and they often retire at 52 years old. This is unsustainable for a company.
 
Last edited:
Gill said:
Maybe next time you should try actually reading the post I originally responded to and you might understand the context.

To make my point clearer just for you........"Most of the rest of the world is doing just fine WITHOUT A PENSION". Got it now ????
Click to expand...

LOL. Your comment still doesn't make sense because it still assumes that most of the rest of the world is doing just fine - they're not. This is not a difficult concept to grasp. Moreover, pensions are irrelevant to much of the world - they make $10/day.
 
Last edited:
theplaydrive said:
LOL. Your comment still doesn't make sense because it still assumes that most of the rest of the world is doing just fine - they're not. This is not a difficult concept to grasp. Moreover, pensions are irrelevant to much of the world - they make $10/day.
Click to expand...

Not surprised you are having difficulty understanding this basic fact. According to one of your libby buddies in a previous post, most of the world does get pensions.
 
Gill said:
Not surprised you are having difficulty understanding this basic fact. According to one of your libby buddies in a previous post, most of the world does get pensions.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry. Are you still having trouble realizing that most of the rest of the world is not doing just fine?
 
theplaydrive said:
I'm sorry. Are you still having trouble realizing that most of the rest of the world is not doing just fine?
Click to expand...

One last time, then I'm done with you.......... THE REST OF THE WORLD IS DOING FINE WITHOUT A EMPLOYER PAID PENSION.

Is that simple enough for you to finally understand ????
 
Gill said:
One last time, then I'm done with you.......... THE REST OF THE WORLD IS DOING FINE WITHOUT A EMPLOYER PAID PENSION.

Is that simple enough for you to finally understand ????
Click to expand...

No - because "most of the rest of the world" is not doing fine...and it has nothing to do with pensions.
 
Mismanaged pensions kill businesses, not properly manage ones. Properly managed ones should operate nearly identical to a 401k, the difference being there is a guaranteed yearly allowance because most of the money is suppose to be invested in nearly guaranteed assets such as gold, low interest rate CDs, bank interest, etc.
 
Erod said:
No, not at all. It's part of your compensation package, and the interest earned is solely the result of the market. Those contributions are made based on a matching percentage, and they are CAPPED at $22,000 per year, most of which is your money, not the matching. Most people put in less than $5K per year, so the matching is only a few dollars.

Paying people indefinitely that are not contributing at all to their former employers is the death knell for a company. That's what has happened to the auto makers.

A pension dishes out, in the instance of auto workers, more than $100K every year until the former employee dies, and they often retire at 52 years old. This is unsustainable for a company.
Click to expand...

You're merely speaking of the variance in pensions plans. Some are done individually, without company contributions. Others are done with matching funds. Among those, some contibute more than others. And if a company or the state believes a package is too much, negotiate better. This is how it should be done. No one is forced to sign anything.
 
Boo Radley said:
And if a company or the state believes a package is too much, negotiate better
Click to expand...

yup, that's what's going on coast to coast, managers like bing and bobb in detroit and the members of the massachusetts state assembly are TEARING UP existing contracts and replacing them with plans severely C-U-T

good thinking
 
The Prof said:
yup, that's what's going on coast to coast, managers like bing and bobb in detroit and the members of the massachusetts state assembly are TEARING UP existing contracts and replacing them with plans severely C-U-T

good thinking
Click to expand...

you view that unilateral action as negotiation

novel; however, your assessment is also wrong
 
justabubba said:
you view that unilateral action as negotiation
Click to expand...

nope, it's reality

in massachusetts, detroit, new york, california and far, far beyond: austerity is the RAGE

nothing anyone can do to stop it

here in america, it's spelled C-U-T-S

and the C-U-T-S currently coming down are on a scale never before contemplated

party on, progressives

be proud
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom