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Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Can’t Read

justabubba said:
what about tenure needs reforming?
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Mainly the adjudication process and the fact that tenure is based only on seniority, not effectiveness.
 
justabubba said:
what about tenure needs reforming?
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Perhaps making it easier to fire a teacher for non performance, while preserving the right to oppose the administration, or to rise to the top of the salary schedule without risking being fired in order to make room for someone who will work more cheaply.

The problem of incompetent teachers is highly exaggerated anyway. Most of them are weeded out long before gaining tenure.
 
JohnWOlin said:
As I stated before there are many outside influences that effect the way children learn that the education system can not stop no matter how strong or weak it is. This isn't an excuse this is just life. Being a new father, my child is healthier and developed more than most 4 month old children by this time, including her motor skills and such. This just isn't because of mine and her mothers constant attention it is also due to many of the colorful, educational toys that help her with her hand eye coordination, balance, and so on. This is just a simple example but many parents themselves do not have the money to afford the kinds of things we are able to afford for my daughter.

So then you have Detroit. I'm sure like Cincinnati's work force, much of the workers there at GM or Ford in Detroit commute from outside neighborhoods out of the school district. So you are left with poorer people whos taxes aren't enough to provide the educational tools needed in the school. They themselves might be working to much, not be around enough, or just not have the money or as much time as they would hope to help their children develop.

Me personally I believe our entire educational system needs an overhaul, I don't think that it's broken but much of what is taught is outdated and needs to be updated to compete with countries such as China and India. This sentiment has been reflected by politicans from both sides.
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And of you saw my initial response to this thread you will see that I said that very thing...the fault and blame is institutional...starting with the families. But no...you thought it would be a good idea to jump in and be snarky and missed the fact that I said basically the exact same thing you did.
 
Dittohead not! said:
The problem of incompetent teachers is highly exaggerated anyway. Most of them are weeded out long before gaining tenure.
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I don't think its exaggerated. Most of the teachers in my high school didn't know how to teach, or taught from a biased point of view while others just stopped caring, thus becoming ineffective.
 
xpiher said:
I don't think its exaggerated. Most of the teachers in my high school didn't know how to teach, or taught from a biased point of view while others just stopped caring, thus becoming ineffective.
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Are you a recent high school graduate then?
 
2004 10char
 
xpiher said:
2004 10char
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OK, seven years is probably enough to have countered the teen "adults don't know nuthin'" sort of attitude. Sounds like your high school was not one of the best.

I've known a lot of teachers, have been involved in evaluation, have taught for a long time. Yes, there are some poor schools out there. Most of the teachers are, however competent. Most of the poor teachers, and a lot of good teachers as well, quit in the first few years.

Teaching is a darned hard job, and people who aren't dedicated to it seldom stay with it.
 
washunut said:
My experience with schools my son has gone to is materially different than what you reference above. Sure there are kids who have the wrong or no motivation regarding school. These seem to be the minority rather than the rule. Teachers also seem to have done a good job.

The high school my son went to is filled with teachers who have degrees from great universities. They are also highly motivated, as the kids who go there are usually because they want to learn.

While I agree that teachers are not the main problem, a union for teachers seems almost counter-intuitive. Just as each student should strive to be the best they can be or not learn what they need to, teachers should be judged on their talents.
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What makes you think teachers don't want to? You seem to be saying all is good. Whiel I agree it is not as bad as some try to paint overall, we do have some problems in many facets of education. And being tenured doesn't mean you're no longer trying to improve.
 
donsutherland1 said:
I will note that there are many factors involved. Having said that, there are some small things that can be done to improve reading outcomes. In my school district, some extra things that are done include:

2. Required regular reading of The New York Times with students being expected to be familiar with current events. The purpose is less about familiarity with current events--though I personally think such awareness is important for any competent citizen--than it is about exposing students intensively to decent writing.
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In other words, forced indoctrination into the liberal mindset. No wonder people are so against public schools.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
In other words, forced indoctrination into the liberal mindset. No wonder people are so against public schools.
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I'm sure we could have them read the American (non)Thinker or the Weekly Standard, but you largely miss the point. He's speaking to awareness and knowing a little bit about what is going on. Too often wht people who say what you just did really mean is that they want thier bias to be taught and pushed, and anything that is not their bias must be indoctrination.
 
Boo Radley said:
As I have said, I don't oppose reasonable reform to how the process is done.
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who cares

the unions oppose reform

you often link things that really don't apply to what is being dicussed (sic)
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says the guy who links to sydney, australia, to show teachers aren't being retained in new york

LOL!
 
Boo Radley said:
I'm sure we could have them read the American (non)Thinker or the Weekly Standard
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well, there's always whitehouse.gov

and comedy central

LOL!
 
The Prof said:
who cares

the unions oppose reform



says the guy who links to sydney, australia, to show teachers aren't being retained in new york

LOL!
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Do unions rule the world? Seriously, try to think about it just a bit.
 
Boo Radley said:
Do unions rule the world?
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what a stupid question

but what can intelligent people expect from folks who look to new south wales for news in new york

LOL!
 
The Prof said:
what a stupid question

but what can intelligent people expect from folks who look to new south wales for news in new york

LOL!
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A stupid response deserves no less than a stupid question. I want to win the lottery, but I still have to buy a ticket. What the union wants is less important than what they can get. Negotiation requires two sides.
 
LOL!

then the unions can simply CHANGE their position

but don't hold your breath

reid's roundhouse will itemize a blueprint before the cta comes around

they have lotteries in sydney?
 
The Prof said:
LOL!

then the unions can simply CHANGE their position

but don't hold your breath

reid's roundhouse will itemize a blueprint before the cta comes around

they have lotteries in sydney?
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And school aministrators can bargan better. :coffeepap
 
Well, I would match my knowledge against yours any day prof. At least I can think. :coffeepap
 
xpiher said:
Apparently, neither do you. I suggest YOU LOOK IT UP. Tenure for public K-12 teachers means access to due process. Its not the type of tenure college professors have.
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I did.

WHAT PROTECTION DOES TENURE OFFER THE PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER?

The type and amount of protection vary from state to state and -- depending on agreements with teachers' unions -- may even vary from school district to school district. In general, a tenured teacher is entitled to due process when he or she is threatened with dismissal or nonrenewal of contract for cause: that is, for failure to maintain some clearly defined standard that serves an educational purpose.

In such cases, due process usually requires that the school board hold a hearing at which the administration presents its arguments in favor of dismissing the teacher or not renewing the teacher's contract, and the teacher is allowed to present his or her side. As in a criminal court, the teacher is presumed innocent until proven guilty: the administration must prove that the teacher has failed to measure up to some clearly defined standard; the teacher need not prove that he or she has measured up to it.

It is not impossible to terminate the employment of a tenured teacher, but the process is a difficult and cumbersome one. Consequently, many parents arrive at the conclusion that administrators would rather retain incompetent teachers than go through the time and effort involved in a dismissal hearing.
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Any more questions???
 
But, they can be fired. How uncumbersome whould firing someone be? Can I just not like their face and fire them? Or should I have to prove just cause for firing?
 
Boo Radley said:
Do unions rule the world? Seriously, try to think about it just a bit.
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They don't rule the world, just the thinking of the RWENJ. It's a kind of Pavlovian response that they get whenever the U word is mentioned.

Unions?!? Well, of course that's the problem. Get rid of the unions, and everything will be hunky dory.
 
Boo Radley said:
I would match my knowledge against yours any day prof.
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when it comes to new south wales, i think you got most people beat

school administrators...

LOL!
 
Dittohead not! said:
They don't rule the world, just the thinking of the RWENJ. It's a kind of Pavlovian response that they get whenever the U word is mentioned.

Unions?!? Well, of course that's the problem. Get rid of the unions, and everything will be hunky dory.
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I kinow. Sadly, I know.
 
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