Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Can’t Read

Gill said:

Guess you never heard of tenure. I suggest you look it up.

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Apparently, neither do you. I suggest YOU LOOK IT UP. Tenure for public K-12 teachers means access to due process. Its not the type of tenure college professors have.

If thats accurate that is dispicable in a country like the USA..

I know im going to get alot of flack for this statement...I dropped out of school right before I was 16..I was a bad kid and a bad student, I went into the military at 17 and when I got back I had to clear post and the education debt wouldnt sign my clearance until I at least tried to take pass the GED test...I took it and 4 months after discharge I got my GED diploma and I immediately started college parttime.
The point is...I COULD READ AND WRITE and read and write quite well when I left school at 15 yrs old...they used to teach us the 4 Rs.
I think the problem today is all the liberal progressive bs in school agendas that doesnt leave time to TEACH the kids what they need to learn to live

lpast said:

If thats accurate that is dispicable in a country like the USA..

I know im going to get alot of flack for this statement...I dropped out of school right before I was 16..I was a bad kid and a bad student, I went into the military at 17 and when I got back I had to clear post and the education debt wouldnt sign my clearance until I at least tried to take pass the GED test...I took it and 4 months after discharge I got my GED diploma and I immediately started college parttime.
The point is...I COULD READ AND WRITE and read and write quite well when I left school at 15 yrs old...they used to teach us the 4 Rs.
I think the problem today is all the liberal progressive bs in school agendas that doesnt leave time to TEACH the kids what they need to learn to live

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I wasn't much better. I missed on average thrity days a quarter in HS. I was an athlete, so people turned their heads until I finished my last sporting event. I had to go to summer school to graduate. I had a 1.0 gpa. I joined the service right after I finished.

Yet I don't reach your conclusion. I would love to see exactly what "LIBERAL" bs you're refering to. Texas dominates texbook selection. NCLB takes away most activities out side of the basics.

lpast said:

If thats accurate that is dispicable in a country like the USA..

I know im going to get alot of flack for this statement...I dropped out of school right before I was 16..I was a bad kid and a bad student, I went into the military at 17 and when I got back I had to clear post and the education debt wouldnt sign my clearance until I at least tried to take pass the GED test...I took it and 4 months after discharge I got my GED diploma and I immediately started college parttime.
The point is...I COULD READ AND WRITE and read and write quite well when I left school at 15 yrs old...they used to teach us the 4 Rs.
I think the problem today is all the liberal progressive bs in school agendas that doesnt leave time to TEACH the kids what they need to learn to live

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There are many problems, it has nothing to do with "liberal progressives." There are problems with kids not going to school until they are 10 years old, there are problems with no one finding out a kid can't see and thats why they can't read until they are 8 years old (happened to me), there are problems with no help being provided in the home by parents or direction, some teachers suck, but some entire SCHOOLs suck that have good teachers, etc.

The problems are massive, deep, pervasive, and varied. There isn't 1 solution to the problem. The entire social system needs a redesign, not just schools.

lpast said:

If thats accurate that is dispicable in a country like the USA..

I know im going to get alot of flack for this statement...I dropped out of school right before I was 16..I was a bad kid and a bad student, I went into the military at 17 and when I got back I had to clear post and the education debt wouldnt sign my clearance until I at least tried to take pass the GED test...I took it and 4 months after discharge I got my GED diploma and I immediately started college parttime.
The point is...I COULD READ AND WRITE and read and write quite well when I left school at 15 yrs old...they used to teach us the 4 Rs.
I think the problem today is all the liberal progressive bs in school agendas that doesnt leave time to TEACH the kids what they need to learn to live

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The kid who sat behind me in general science class in high school was illiterate.

Oh, and that was back in the '50s.

The problem of kids who don't learn to read is nothing new, has nothing to do with "liberal progressive bs", teacher unions, or even dropouts. You're not the only kid who dropped out of school despite having academic skills to succeed.

It goes back to a poster I once put up in my classroom: It read:

The key to learning is YAGATAWANTA.

Was then, still is. Sometimes, the motivation comes after having been out of school for a while.

Dittohead not! said:

The kid who sat behind me in general science class in high school was illiterate.

Oh, and that was back in the '50s.

The problem of kids who don't learn to read is nothing new, has nothing to do with "liberal progressive bs", teacher unions, or even dropouts. You're not the only kid who dropped out of school despite having academic skills to succeed.

It goes back to a poster I once put up in my classroom: It read:

The key to learning is YAGATAWANTA.

Was then, still is. Sometimes, the motivation comes after having been out of school for a while.

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Back then, education wasn't as much of a necessity, so it wasn't as big a deal. These days you have to pass a computer based test to even submit an application to walmart.

megaprogman said:

Back then, education wasn't as much of a necessity, so it wasn't as big a deal. These days you have to pass a computer based test to even submit an application to walmart.

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And back then, there were plenty of jobs for strong backs. Today? Notsomuch.

xpiher said:

There are many problems, it has nothing to do with "liberal progressives." There are problems with kids not going to school until they are 10 years old, there are problems with no one finding out a kid can't see and thats why they can't read until they are 8 years old (happened to me), there are problems with no help being provided in the home by parents or direction, some teachers suck, but some entire SCHOOLs suck that have good teachers, etc.

The problems are massive, deep, pervasive, and varied. There isn't 1 solution to the problem. The entire social system needs a redesign, not just schools.

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no sorry that is incorrect...it has everything to do with liberal progressive garbage and ill explain how I know that.

When I was a kid we had reform schools for recalcitrant kids...the liberals thought that was horrific and got rid of them...there has never been a more successful social program than Father Flannigans Reform School...he reprogrammed thousands up thousands of kids and made them capable of being good citizens without one pat on the ass.

When i retired one of my positions was Adminstrator of Security for an alternative HS...a large alternative HS. The school broke all the rules and all the laws and was run by progressive morons.
The law said you could not miss X amt of days and be promoted..we had kids that never attended class that has diplomas mailed to them.
They had to take a test and pass to graduate...the teachers held class's giving the answers to the final test to all the students and still 80 % failed...so the passed them anyway.
The graduated MORONS that couldnt read or write a simple sentence...and when I asked the head of the school...<pay attention her> who was a renowned and hailed as the foremost expert on Alternative education He has written books and been given hundreds of awards for his work with alternative students why he graduated kids thats couldnt read...his answer was to give them a chance...A chance at what !!!! no punishment for getting caught shooting heroin and selling it on school grounds...never attending class...fighting destruction of property...the only time students paid any price is when I went over his head and called in the local police and Child services.
It was a cesspoll where TAXPAYERS PAID 12,000 per student...

lpast said:

no sorry that is incorrect...it has everything to do with liberal progressive garbage and ill explain how I know that.

When I was a kid we had reform schools for recalcitrant kids...the liberals thought that was horrific and got rid of them...there has never been a more successful social program than Father Flannigans Reform School...he reprogrammed thousands up thousands of kids and made them capable of being good citizens without one pat on the ass.

When i retired one of my positions was Adminstrator of Security for an alternative HS...a large alternative HS. The school broke all the rules and all the laws and was run by progressive morons.
The law said you could not miss X amt of days and be promoted..we had kids that never attended class that has diplomas mailed to them.
They had to take a test and pass to graduate...the teachers held class's giving the answers to the final test to all the students and still 80 % failed...so the passed them anyway.
The graduated MORONS that couldnt read or write a simple sentence...and when I asked the head of the school...<pay attention her> who was a renowned and hailed as the foremost expert on Alternative education He has written books and been given hundreds of awards for his work with alternative students which amounted to no punishment for getting caught shooting heroin and selling it on school grounds...never attending class...fighting destruction of property...the only time students paid any price is when I went over his head and called in the local police and Child services.
It was a cesspoll where TAXPAYERS PAID 12,000 per student...

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Ok, so one bad school is your entire dataset?

lpast said:

no sorry that is incorrect...it has everything to do with liberal progressive garbage and ill explain how I know that.

When I was a kid we had reform schools for recalcitrant kids...the liberals thought that was horrific and got rid of them

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Sigh, 1 bad school = bad administration. Administration ! = teachers. Also, 1 bad school :doh

Also, those kids were in high school. How the hell are they to get high school students who don't want to be there anyways to learn anything.

megaprogman said:

Ok, so one bad school is your entire dataset?

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not one bad school...I hope your not naive enough to realize this isnt happening everywhere...each student has a taxpayer dollar figure attached to them...thats why public teacher unions are so afraid of charter schools...every student they lose to a charter school means thousands to them..
Many districts budgets are tied to the success...success is measured by GRADUATES..it behooves them to give diplomas away..

Look this is simple..if you have a hs diploma and you cant read something is wrong right ?

xpiher said:

Sigh, 1 bad school = bad administration. Administration ! = teachers. Also, 1 bad school :doh

Also, those kids were in high school. How the hell are they to get high school students who don't want to be there anyways to learn anything.

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ALternative schools no reform schools...

xpiher said:

Sigh, 1 bad school = bad administration. Administration ! = teachers. Also, 1 bad school :doh

Also, those kids were in high school. How the hell are they to get high school students who don't want to be there anyways to learn anything.

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Thats why McDonalds has pictures of big macs instead of numbers...because we graduate morons

lpast said:

ALternative schools no reform schools...

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What do you call sending students/kids to military schools?

BTW, social promotion is bull****.

xpiher said:

How the hell are they to get high school students who don't want to be there anyways to learn anything.

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LOL!

you could start by actually REQUIRING kids to EARN their diplomas

hello

hello, they'll drop out hello! I also said that social promotion is BS

lpast said:

not one bad school...I hope your not naive enough to realize this isnt happening everywhere...each student has a taxpayer dollar figure attached to them...thats why public teacher unions are so afraid of charter schools...every student they lose to a charter school means thousands to them..
Many districts budgets are tied to the success...success is measured by GRADUATES..it behooves them to give diplomas away..

Look this is simple..if you have a hs diploma and you cant read something is wrong right ?

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If you have the data to prove it is happening everywhere, it would be one thing.

JohnWOlin said:

So do you just have a big poster of Ayn Rand in your living room with candles around it and offerings? You know, if we used your logic that if a kid doesn't care about education then they don't belong in school..guess what? You would be ****ed. There would be a bunch of kids a few years from now robbing you at gun point because I'm pretty certain any child at one point probably has said "I just want to quit school". Do you seriously think a child has the capacity to make wise decisions for themselves? I guess we should quit trying to feed them vegetables and healthy habits because hey, if they want candy **** it they don't need to be healthy THEY DESERVE diabetes? Seriously.

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Nah...why...do you keep your shrine to the king of the morons you worship daily in your living room or do you have a special room? Good thing those personal comments are all in fun, right?

If you followed my plan those that actually stayed in school would survive and thrive. Kids wouldnt have to pass through metal detectors and the quality of their education wouldnt be reduced to the lowest common denominator. And you are at LEAST an apprentice 3rd level moron if you dont recognize that with the poluted product we today call 'schools' we dont already have all those problems you cited and more. You are a fan of evolution...right? Stop providing opportunites for people to fail. Stop excusing it. Try taking a stand and demanding a better quality product.

xpiher said:

hello, they'll drop out hello! I also said that social promotion is BS

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Yes, it is, and yet research has shown that holding kids back doesn't change them or motivate them. So, what do you do with the kids who didn't pass fourth (third, fifth, take your pick) grade? Keep them in fourth grade, they just create discipline problems. Promote them, they learn to just coast. The solution is.... ?????

Dittohead not! said:

Yes, it is, and yet research has shown that holding kids back doesn't change them or motivate them. So, what do you do with the kids who didn't pass fourth (third, fifth, take your pick) grade? Keep them in fourth grade, they just create discipline problems. Promote them, they learn to just coast. The solution is.... ?????

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Depends on the student. Do they not care because of physiological problems, economic problems, learn disabilities? Money needs to be spent in identifying problems, problem is, thats not usually what happens.

xpiher said:

Depends on the student. Do they not care because of physiological problems, economic problems, learn disabilities? Money needs to be spent in identifying problems, problem is, thats not usually what happens.

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In many cases, they don't think they can succeed. They may have encountered failure, and just given up. Holding them back just reinforces the belief that they can't do it, so they just quit trying.

One problem is starting formal instruction before the child is ready. You try to learn to read, and don't succeed, so you decide you can't. Same with math. Someone tries to teach you fractions, or algebra, and you don't get it, and decide that you just don't get math. So, what do we do to reform the situation? Why, we start teaching academics at an earlier and earlier age, of course. It's a great solution politically, but a disaster to the learning process.

If walking had to be formally taught, we'd have a generation of crawlers. Kids learn to walk when they're ready. For some, that means nine months or so, for others perhaps 15. Do the earlier walkers turn out to be better at it? Not necessarily. For reading, it's the same thing. A kid who learns at 5 is not necessarily better at it than one who learns at 7, or 9. One of the best teachers of remedial reading I met told me he learned to read himself at the age of 15.

Dittohead not! said:

In many cases, they don't think they can succeed. They may have encountered failure, and just given up. Holding them back just reinforces the belief that they can't do it, so they just quit trying.

One problem is starting formal instruction before the child is ready. You try to learn to read, and don't succeed, so you decide you can't. Same with math. Someone tries to teach you fractions, or algebra, and you don't get it, and decide that you just don't get math. So, what do we do to reform the situation? Why, we start teaching academics at an earlier and earlier age, of course. It's a great solution politically, but a disaster to the learning process.

If walking had to be formally taught, we'd have a generation of crawlers. Kids learn to walk when they're ready. For some, that means nine months or so, for others perhaps 15. Do the earlier walkers turn out to be better at it? Not necessarily. For reading, it's the same thing. A kid who learns at 5 is not necessarily better at it than one who learns at 7, or 9. One of the best teachers of remedial reading I met told me he learned to read himself at the age of 15.

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And how do you identify if that is indeed the problem or not? Oh, and some kids are just stupid. My brother doesn't understand Math at all, granted he wasn't taught it very well, but hes been told by nearly everyone that he'll get it eventually. Because of that, he still wants to go hardcore into science, mainly medical. He'll be a college drop out because of it. Sometimes honesty is the best policy.

xpiher said:

And how do you identify if that is indeed the problem or not? Oh, and some kids are just stupid. My brother doesn't understand Math at all, granted he wasn't taught it very well, but hes been told by nearly everyone that he'll get it eventually. Because of that, he still wants to go hardcore into science, mainly medical. He'll be a college drop out because of it. Sometimes honesty is the best policy.

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Nearly every human being that ever walked the Earth is capable of more than he/she imagines. Telling someone that they're just stupid and will never get it is child abuse IMO.

Dittohead not! said:

Nearly every human being that ever walked the Earth is capable of more than he/she imagines. Telling someone that they're just stupid and will never get it is child abuse IMO.

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And if they really can't do it because they are stupid what is that? Some people are just dumb, or don't easily understand certain types of information. That doesn't make them completely stupid or useless, it just means they should switch their focus to something they are actually capable of doing.

hazlnut said:

IMHO - your pathetic ramblings are of the ignorant and racist variety. You mean to say it's hard to teach 'black' babies to read, right?

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/facepalm. You cannot be serious.

hazlnut said:

[You and the Badmutha see Detroit as one big ghetto. And you see black people as less intelligent monkeys. You hide your racism behind snide little remarks -- but we catch your drift.

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/facepalm

hazlnut said:

[It's not hard to teach crack babies, black babies, white babies or any baby to read. It requires loving parents and devoted teachers.

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It IS hard to teach children who have issues with reading as a result of drug abuse by their mother or whatever the reason may be. And it's damn near impossible when the child spends 16 hours out of the day with someone who isn't loving, caring or helpful.