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Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Can’t Read

TurtleDude said:
why do you call people racist when they post factually correct statements. the fact is American black society has several detrimental social pathologies that cause many members of that community to underachieve or end up in jail. It is not racist to note those pathologies-indeed real racism involves enabling such behavior by castigating those who point it out.
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That's not what he said...

And how many of those social pathologies are their fault?
 
hazlnut said:
Answer my question -- why is it hard to teach a crack baby to read? Tell us what you meant when you said that.
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First of all I never said anything about race. That was you. I had friends die from drug use including crack cocaine. Many of my childhood friends were caught up in the crack epidemic in the Detroit area. Many of them are no longer with us. And guess what, they were caucasian as if that matters. People from all walks of life have issues with drugs and crack babies come in all races.
 
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TurtleDude said:
why do you call people racist when they post factually correct statements. the fact is American black society has several detrimental social pathologies that cause many members of that community to underachieve or end up in jail. It is not racist to note those pathologies-indeed real racism involves enabling such behavior by castigating those who point it out.
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it's pathetic that an officer of the court goes out of his way to demonstrate ownership of such backward, racially biased views
 
hazlnut said:
That's not what he said...

And how many of those social pathologies are their fault?
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most are the fault of the individual or their parents. They sure aren't the fault of those who are usually taxed and tasked to pay for the errors.

dropping out of school before gaining a diploma is almost always the fault of the person
doing drugs is almost always the fault of the person
getting knocked up before getting married or fathering children with women one is not married to is almost always the fault of the individual

and if you don't engage in those three destructive activities, your chance of being impoverished is less than one in twenty
 
SgtRock said:
First of all I never said anything about race.
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I never said you made an overtly racist comment -- few racists do. But I stated that IMO, your comment was racist because when you said crack babies you meant black babies. That's my opinion. Reading between the lines.

You can call foul all you want. Your snide tone was pretty revealing. Just like the Badmutha, you see Detroit as one big black ghetto. And, in your mind, it's their fault they can't read because they're lazy and shiftless...

Here's the point, here's what you should say: It's not hard to teach a crack baby to ready because, with proper medical care, they're as capable as any child of learning to read.

I had friends die from drug use including crack cocaine. Many of my childhood friends were caught up in the crack epidemic in the Detroit area. Many of them are no longer with us. And guess what, they were caucasian as if that matters. Drugs effect all of us and crack babies came in all races.
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backpedal.gif


Nice, you do that well...
 
justabubba said:
it's pathetic that an officer of the court goes out of his way to demonstrate ownership of such backward, racially biased views
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its pathetic you constantly comment about me out of the blue based on an erroneous and dishonest interpretation of what I have posted.
 
hazlnut said:
I never said you made an overtly racist comment -- few racists do. But I stated that IMO, your comment was racist because when you said crack babies you meant black babies. That's my opinion. Reading between the lines.

You can call foul all you want. Your snide tone was pretty revealing. Just like the Badmutha, you see Detroit as one big black ghetto. And, in your mind, it's their fault they can't read because they're lazy and shiftless...

Here's the point, here's what you should say: It's not hard to teach a crack baby to ready because, with proper medical care, they're as capable as any child of learning to read.



backpedal.gif


Nice, you do that well...
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Please do not put words in my mouth. When I said crack babies I meant just that crack babies. Race never even entered my mind. You are the one who thought of African Americans when I used the term crack babies. Why is that hazelnut?
 
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TurtleDude said:
most are the fault of the individual or their parents.
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So both the child (the individual) and parent are at fault??

Well, only a complete idiot would blame a child for not learning to read...or anything. So, the innocent child grows up not learning to read, and as an adult they have children and don't push education or reading on them... is it there fault?

They sure aren't the fault of those who are usually taxed and tasked to pay for the errors.
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--yawn... it's getting boring, T.

dropping out of school before gaining a diploma is almost always the fault of the person
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Why is it always the fault -- in every single instance? Are you really that naive??



doing drugs is almost always the fault of the person
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9 year old, 10 year old... 11, 12, 13... 18? All of them are guilty.

getting knocked up before getting married or fathering children with women one is not married to is almost always the fault of the individual
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Incest, rape, statutory rape victims... all guilty as charged in the court of Turtle...

and if you don't engage in those three destructive activities, your chance of being impoverished is less than one in twenty
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"Engage" in those behaviors. Dad's in jail, mom works two jobs... and you want every kid to dig down and find the Ayn Rand character within...

IMO -- you are that naive...
 
I never said I blamed the child, I blamed its parents

and why does the left excuse destructive pathologies? is it because they need lots of people who have issues to be pawns of their party?
 
TurtleDude said:
its pathetic you constantly comment about me out of the blue based on an erroneous and dishonest interpretation of what I have posted.
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here is your statement (as was exactly posted previously). point out what interpretations should be found erroneous and/or dishonest
TurtleDude said:
why do you call people racist when they post factually correct statements. the fact is American black society has several detrimental social pathologies that cause many members of that community to underachieve or end up in jail. It is not racist to note those pathologies-indeed real racism involves enabling such behavior by castigating those who point it out.
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you have til tomorrow
 
justabubba said:
here is your statement (as was exactly posted previously). point out what interpretations should be found erroneous and/or dishonest

you have til tomorrow
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generally those who whine that others are racist are those who cannot handle the truth and use the dishonest charges of racism or racist as a cowardly attempt to silence or embarrass those whose points the name callers cannot refute
 
I find it interesting that the general wisdom of the devotees of 'free markets' and deregulation; 'you get what you pay for', applies to everything but education.
 
NGNM85 said:
I find it interesting that the general wisdom of the devotees of 'free markets' and deregulation; 'you get what you pay for', applies to everything but education.
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That doesn't make sense to me

I send my son to an expensive private school because you do get what you pay for
 
TurtleDude said:
generally those who whine that others are racist are those who cannot handle the truth and use the dishonest charges of racism or racist as a cowardly attempt to silence or embarrass those whose points the name callers cannot refute
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you profess to be an attorney. yet when challenged to point out what you assert are dishonest and erroneous interpretations within my ensuing post, you slink away from that challenge. rather than meeting the challenge and pointing out any errors or dishonesty, you instead deflect to speak of those who are unable to handle the truth

my post with which you took exception:
it's pathetic that an officer of the court goes out of his way to demonstrate ownership of such backward, racially biased views
Click to expand...

my response was to this statement by you:
why do you call people racist when they post factually correct statements. the fact is American black society has several detrimental social pathologies that cause many members of that community to underachieve or end up in jail. It is not racist to note those pathologies-indeed real racism involves enabling such behavior by castigating those who point it out.
Click to expand...

so, do not take the coward's way out and avoid the challenge. instead, this time, point to ANY error or dishonesty within my above post, highlited in blue font

you stated the following about that post in blue font:
its pathetic you constantly comment about me out of the blue based on an erroneous and dishonest interpretation of what I have posted.
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now point to what is found erroneous and dishonest within my above post


certainly any real attorney who makes such a statement would be able to defend it by citing the errors and dishonesty. prove for us that you are an attorney rather than a coward
 
TurtleDude said:
That doesn't make sense to me

I send my son to an expensive private school because you do get what you pay for
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Then conversely, one would expect individuals like yourself to presume that if we allocate more funding for public education, presuming we divide it up right, we'll get better public education. However, the right, as a whole (Many of whom seem fairly skeptical of taxes, or even federal government, as a concept.) seem to expect schools and teachers to produce far better results by slashing their funding. There just seems to be a duplicity, there.
 
So a democrat is the leader of a city, that has a high poverty rate?! I'm shocked! I wonder why the poverty rate is so damn high in Cincinnati, a city I live within close proximity of! Well besides the fact that the majority of Cincinnati's population lives in their ultra cheap housing within the cities limits, and the surrounding suburbs have half a million dollar homes (which these home owners actually *gasp* commute to Cincinnati!) it could have to do with the unfortunate reality that typically, cities who's populations are disproportionately non-white will do worse in education statistically.

Why doesn't anybody ever include the fact that most people that live within these cities aren't exactly doing well for themselves in the first place, and the vast majority of the greater city area actually does very well? Cincinnati especially has 4 incredible colleges, 2 decent school systems, and a nice catholic school as well, as well as an incredibly affluent Jewish community in the northern neighboring towns around Cincinnati. That's the thing about these studies when people try to prove this or that about how horrible a city is. I'm sure many of you living around one of these other major cities could have a similar story knowing the actual geography of the area rather than going off a flat stat sheet that doesn't take into account that smaller, neighboring parts of the city do incredibly well (and are also typically ran by Democrats).
 
zimmer said:
The Report
http://cbsdetroit.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/basicskillsreport_final.pdf

I'll leave the commentary to others, then again... my bet is it's because the teachers aren't paid enough for their fabulous performance.

It can't get any worse, so why not try something different, radical... like vouchers and ridding the city of unionized teachers?

.
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My guess is that if they are claiming 47% (based on those that cant adequately fill out employment applications) then the actual numbers is probably closer to 60% when you factor in those that dont even bother trying to apply for jobs.

I dont think you can blame schools for all or even most of this. Blame it on the failed families, the refusal to teach basic education principles, blame it on the community for failure to stress the importance of academic success. Blame it on the corporations for a nearsighted profit oriented vision that allowed their industry to crumble. Blame the unions for also contributing to the collapse of industry by pricing workers out of jobs. Blame ineffective government policy that lacked the vision to engage to keep Americas industrial base solid and viable. Blame shareholders for buying into share profits at the expense of workers. Blame the politicians for not engaging the problem. Blame the citizens that kept sending the same clowns to the state legislature. Blame the citizens for not effectively shepparding their communities.

Lots of blame.

But if your point re education is that it is senseless to continue to throw good money after bad in an obviously failed education system...then yes indeed...you are spot on.
 
NGNM85 said:
I find it interesting that the general wisdom of the devotees of 'free markets' and deregulation; 'you get what you pay for', applies to everything but education.
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The modern perception is that school is free and people treat it accordingly.
They treat it cheaply.

Education is heavily financed, with the school districts typically hiding costs to justify greater funding, that is wasted.
 
zimmer said:
The Report
http://cbsdetroit.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/basicskillsreport_final.pdf

I'll leave the commentary to others, then again... my bet is it's because the teachers aren't paid enough for their fabulous performance.

It can't get any worse, so why not try something different, radical... like vouchers and ridding the city of unionized teachers?

.
Click to expand...

Theres more to education than just teachers. I would say teachers aren't paid enough in general. The majority of money spent per child is sent to administrators.

I think you all, who bash teachers, should watch The Cartel.

Yes, Union rules sometimes protect bad teachers
Yes, too much money is being wasted in the SYSTEM
 
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justabubba said:
you profess to be an attorney. yet when challenged to point out what you assert are dishonest and erroneous interpretations within my ensuing post, you slink away from that challenge. rather than meeting the challenge and pointing out any errors or dishonesty, you instead deflect to speak of those who are unable to handle the truth

my post with which you took exception:

my response was to this statement by you:

so, do not take the coward's way out and avoid the challenge. instead, this time, point to ANY error or dishonesty within my above post, highlited in blue font

you stated the following about that post in blue font:

now point to what is found erroneous and dishonest within my above post


certainly any real attorney who makes such a statement would be able to defend it by citing the errors and dishonesty. prove for us that you are an attorney rather than a coward
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Its pretty much a given you have not paid attention to the edification CC and others have delivered to you. And your obsession with that fact is becoming pathological

truth is not racially biased and you never have proven ANYTHING I have posted to be untrue
 
According to a new report, 47 percent of Detroiters are ”functionally illiterate.”
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I could have told you that myself and didn't need to read the article either.
 
hazlnut said:
Incorrect, they are usually born premature and addicted to crack--both medical issues are treatable, the baby is as capable of learning as any other.



Please provide links showing the crack epidemic in Redondo Beach.

IMHO - your pathetic ramblings are of the ignorant and racist variety. You mean to say it's hard to teach 'black' babies to read, right?

You and the Badmutha see Detroit as one big ghetto. And you see black people as less intelligent monkeys. You hide your racism behind snide little remarks -- but we catch your drift.

It's not hard to teach crack babies, black babies, white babies or any baby to read. It requires loving parents and devoted teachers.
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Not true. Crack babies have a higher percentage of long-term mental health issues. 13.7% versus 7.1% were classified as mentally retarded or 4.89 higher than would be expected in the general population. A significantly higher percentage of children were classified with learning delays were also found in children exposed to cocaine while in the womb, 37.6% versus 20.9% in the control group.

This information is from a study made by a group of hospital researchers in Cleveland. It took into account many more factors than other studies on the problem.

Cocaine babies
 
JohnWOlin said:
So a democrat is the leader of a city, that has a high poverty rate?! I'm shocked! I wonder why the poverty rate is so damn high in Cincinnati, a city I live within close proximity of! Well besides the fact that the majority of Cincinnati's population lives in their ultra cheap housing within the cities limits, and the surrounding suburbs have half a million dollar homes (which these home owners actually *gasp* commute to Cincinnati!) it could have to do with the unfortunate reality that typically, cities who's populations are disproportionately non-white will do worse in education statistically.

Why doesn't anybody ever include the fact that most people that live within these cities aren't exactly doing well for themselves in the first place, and the vast majority of the greater city area actually does very well? Cincinnati especially has 4 incredible colleges, 2 decent school systems, and a nice catholic school as well, as well as an incredibly affluent Jewish community in the northern neighboring towns around Cincinnati. That's the thing about these studies when people try to prove this or that about how horrible a city is. I'm sure many of you living around one of these other major cities could have a similar story knowing the actual geography of the area rather than going off a flat stat sheet that doesn't take into account that smaller, neighboring parts of the city do incredibly well (and are also typically ran by Democrats).
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You can now expect to be called a racist by hazlnut.
 
TurtleDude said:
why do you call people racist when they post factually correct statements. the fact is American black society has several detrimental social pathologies that cause many members of that community to underachieve or end up in jail. It is not racist to note those pathologies-indeed real racism involves enabling such behavior by castigating those who point it out.
Click to expand...

Too be honst, it depends on how you explain the nature of those problems. If you suggest it is something inherent in the race, then you're pretty much racist. it you look at the historical and societial problems that led to the problems, not so much.
 
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