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Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Can’t Read

TurtleDude said:
I merely pointed out the fact that problems exist. a couple people well known for hysterically calling others "racist" ASSUMED additional facts not in evidence
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Your language was curious. However, do you disagree with what I said?
 
justabubba said:
you profess to be an attorney. yet when challenged to point out what you assert are dishonest and erroneous interpretations within my ensuing post, you slink away from that challenge. rather than meeting the challenge and pointing out any errors or dishonesty, you instead deflect to speak of those who are unable to handle the truth

my post with which you took exception:

my response was to this statement by you:

so, do not take the coward's way out and avoid the challenge. instead, this time, point to ANY error or dishonesty within my above post, highlited in blue font

you stated the following about that post in blue font:

now point to what is found erroneous and dishonest within my above post


certainly any real attorney who makes such a statement would be able to defend it by citing the errors and dishonesty. prove for us that you are an attorney rather than a coward
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Moderator's Warning:
This thread is about Detroit schools, not about a member's profession. Please stay on topic.
 
TurtleDude said:
pointing out the fact that crack addiction and unwed birthrates are far higher in american black culture than american white culture is both factual and non-racist. And only a fool would claim that crack addiction or out of wedlock births are NOT detrimental
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and yet, there are fools claiming exactly that.

"All children can learn at a high level. It is teacher expectations that determine learning. If some of the students can't or won't pass the test, it is the teacher's fault for not having high enough expectations. "

Unfortunately, those fools are in positions of power.
 
Boo Radley said:
Your language was curious. However, do you disagree with what I said?
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your question is curious. do you disagree with what I have said?

environment and culture causes issues not one's DNA or skin color
 
TurtleDude said:
your question is curious. do you disagree with what I have said?

environment and culture causes issues not one's DNA or skin color
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Culture includes how others treat them. But, no I don't disagree. These things are part of the many factors that efect student success or failure.
 
Gill said:
No what's silly is your asinine straw man attempt at comparing a teacher to a doctor treating cancer patients with little hope of survival.
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The silly comparison he made would certainly work...if doctors were still treating said cancer with leaches knowing **** didnt work. God forbid anyone actually admit that the education system as it is being implemented is for whatever reason NOT WORKING and there should be changes....
 
VanceMack said:
The silly comparison he made would certainly work...if doctors were still treating said cancer with leaches knowing **** didnt work. God forbid anyone actually admit that the education system as it is being implemented is for whatever reason NOT WORKING and there should be changes....
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By all mans, show that teachers are doing what is equivilent to using leeches. Private schools for example use the same methods that public schools do. Is there a problem with the methods, or something else?
 
VanceMack said:
The silly comparison he made would certainly work...if doctors were still treating said cancer with leaches knowing **** didnt work. God forbid anyone actually admit that the education system as it is being implemented is for whatever reason NOT WORKING and there should be changes....
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The education system is working fine, and the proof is most children meet the educational standards in testing and grading. Don't bring god into this debate. Thks!
 
Boo Radley said:
By all mans, show that teachers are doing what is equivilent to using leeches. Private schools for example use the same methods that public schools do. Is there a problem with the methods, or something else?
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There is a problem with warehousing children in public schools and counting warm bodies for pay sake and not adjusting methodology when your practices are failing. You poke yourself in the eye 20 times there is a pretty good chance its still going to hurt like hell the 21st time. Private schools require active parent participation. They require motivation and success. They dont keep ****ty teachers because they are tenured. They succeed or die.
 
Boo Radley said:
By all mans, show that teachers are doing what is equivilent to using leeches. Private schools for example use the same methods that public schools do. Is there a problem with the methods, or something else?
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Let me help you out. You can study this definition for the next 30 minutes, then reread his post. Let's see if you understand it better after that.

fa·ce·tious
   [fuh-see-shuhs] Show IPA
–adjective
1. not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.
2. amusing; humorous.
3. lacking serious intent; concerned with something nonessential, amusing, or frivolous
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VanceMack said:
There is a problem with warehousing children in public schools and counting warm bodies for pay sake and not adjusting methodology when your practices are failing. You poke yourself in the eye 20 times there is a pretty good chance its still going to hurt like hell the 21st time. Private schools require active parent participation. They require motivation and success. They dont keep ****ty teachers because they are tenured. They succeed or die.
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And you would bitch and moan and call teachers storm troopers if they forced parents to participate in children's educations in the home. I just see some GM CEO working 20 hours a day, being told he needs to spend 3 hours a night teaching his children. LOL! Do I sense the gestapo mentality coming on?
 
VanceMack said:
There is a problem with warehousing children in public schools and counting warm bodies for pay sake and not adjusting methodology when your practices are failing. You poke yourself in the eye 20 times there is a pretty good chance its still going to hurt like hell the 21st time. Private schools require active parent participation. They require motivation and success. They dont keep ****ty teachers because they are tenured. They succeed or die.
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that is inherent in mandatory education. if you says tudent have to be there, at some level you end up warehousing.

And how do you know teachers don't adjust their methodology? As this would be factually incorrect, as there is a ton of continuing education and efforts to improve, often dictated from above as well as on their own.

Private schools get more aprents who are likely to be active, have more freedom to kick students out, but this has nothing to do with the teachingt itself. Nor is anything the teacher can control.

And frankly, though more difficult, pulic schools can fire even tenured teachers. During negotiations, we can fight to make those easier, but what evidence do you ahve that this is a large problem concerning student outcomes? It may cost some money to fire them, but that is not the same as saying they are a major reason for overall failure of students.
 
Badmutha said:
Well when all signs point to YES.......only a liberal could point to NO.........

The Poorest American Cities of 2008 (1-30)


What do all these cities have in common?

.......besides high poverty, high crime, an abundance of Public Unions, and the most pathetic public school systems in the country?
.
.
.
.
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Republican govenors controlling the dole.
 
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shintao said:
And you would bitch and moan and call teachers storm troopers if they forced parents to participate in children's educations in the home. I just see some GM CEO working 20 hours a day, being told he needs to spend 3 hours a night teaching his children. LOL! Do I sense the gestapo mentality coming on?
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Nope...I go entirely the other direction. I dont give a damn about little Johnny if little Johnny doesnt give a damn about himself. I say little Johnny doesnt want to study little Johnny doesnt belong in school. Sorry pal...I dont fit your little narrow minded stereotype.
 
MaggieD said:
Zimmer! You hit the nail on the head! We aren't paying their teachers enough. And it certainly has nothing to do with how the teachers teach. The students just aren't pickin' up what the teachers are puttin' down. They're all brilliant educators, highly motivated and, Lord knows, are able to motivate kids!! It's those damn students. It's their parents' faults. It's poverty. Of those two things we're certain. But it's absolutely positively not the fault of the teachers or the system. I'm glad you got that oh-so-right.

*sarcasm*
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No, it is not the teachers, and what is this motivate kids all about?

The study is flawed, because we have no idea how many of the subjects have been residents of Michigan through-out their educational years, if any!

Since 53% are not illiterate, it indicates the teacher did teach correctly (Some A's, B's, C's, D's,...), and some other factor is responsible for the failures. Perhaps the failures are from getting a private education. Perhaps they are illegals or immigrants with no lingo. The affairs of the union? LMAO!! Maybe it was the GM car they drive!!
 
VanceMack said:
Nope...I go entirely the other direction. I dont give a damn about little Johnny if little Johnny doesnt give a damn about himself. I say little Johnny doesnt want to study little Johnny doesnt belong in school. Sorry pal...I dont fit your little narrow minded stereotype.
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I agree with you! :)
 
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TurtleDude said:
those cities have sucked through GOP and DEM administrations. try again
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I shouldn't even respond here, as it is so far off the topic we would have to pump BM sunlight & beer to wake him up.
 
I think many people look at these big cities with their illiteracy rates and will instantly, and unjustifiably blame democrats or any politician. Fact of the matter is, inner-city blacks typically will come from very broken families, with bad family support, or parents that alternatively have to work extra hard to make ends meet. I look at Covington, KY where I lived for awhile and is right across the river from Cincinnati at Holmes high school. Not only has the student body improved in state testing and done better academically due to radical changes and accepting the realities of today's society, Holmes also won the state championship in 2009 so athletically they do very well also.

I lived in Gallatin County a very rural part of Kentucky for quite some time, vast majority white, and they had bad testing and illiteracy problems as well. However these problems didn't stem from family problems, rather (and I'm being serious) an interest in moon shining, agriculture, and an over all consensus amongst student that the dumber you were, the better you were. There is a lot of bad things that go on in all kinds of communities when it comes to education, any party trying to narrow it down to the opposing party being at fault is just silly.
 
JohnWOlin said:
I think many people look at these big cities with their illiteracy rates and will instantly, and unjustifiably blame democrats or any politician. Fact of the matter is, inner-city blacks typically will come from very broken families, with bad family support, or parents that alternatively have to work extra hard to make ends meet. I look at Covington, KY where I lived for awhile and is right across the river from Cincinnati at Holmes high school. Not only has the student body improved in state testing and done better academically due to radical changes and accepting the realities of today's society, Holmes also won the state championship in 2009 so athletically they do very well also.

I lived in Gallatin County a very rural part of Kentucky for quite some time, vast majority white, and they had bad testing and illiteracy problems as well. However these problems didn't stem from family problems, rather (and I'm being serious) an interest in moon shining, agriculture, and an over all consensus amongst student that the dumber you were, the better you were. There is a lot of bad things that go on in all kinds of communities when it comes to education, any party trying to narrow it down to the opposing party being at fault is just silly.
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so where are you now, I work downtown Cincinnati
 
VanceMack said:
Nope...I go entirely the other direction. I dont give a damn about little Johnny if little Johnny doesnt give a damn about himself. I say little Johnny doesnt want to study little Johnny doesnt belong in school. Sorry pal...I dont fit your little narrow minded stereotype.
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So do you just have a big poster of Ayn Rand in your living room with candles around it and offerings? You know, if we used your logic that if a kid doesn't care about education then they don't belong in school..guess what? You would be ****ed. There would be a bunch of kids a few years from now robbing you at gun point because I'm pretty certain any child at one point probably has said "I just want to quit school". Do you seriously think a child has the capacity to make wise decisions for themselves? I guess we should quit trying to feed them vegetables and healthy habits because hey, if they want candy **** it they don't need to be healthy THEY DESERVE diabetes? Seriously.
 
TurtleDude said:
so where are you now, I work downtown Cincinnati
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Where at downtown I used to work at Blue Cross Anthem and Convergys. But I live further down now near Maysville, KY about 45 min from Cincinnati.
 
JohnWOlin said:
Where at downtown I used to work at Blue Cross Anthem and Convergys. But I live further down now near Maysville, KY about 45 min from Cincinnati.
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ah ok-wonder if Rylands is still there (live pigeon shoots-big hush hush)

convergys is near my office. they just got zapped with a 7 figure fine by the city-something about promising to keep 1100+ workers in town for tax cuts and they didn't
 
TurtleDude said:
ah ok-wonder if Rylands is still there (live pigeon shoots-big hush hush)

convergys is near my office. they just got zapped with a 7 figure fine by the city-something about promising to keep 1100+ workers in town for tax cuts and they didn't
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Oh I havent worked there for awhile.
 
JohnWOlin said:
So do you just have a big poster of Ayn Rand in your living room with candles around it and offerings? You know, if we used your logic that if a kid doesn't care about education then they don't belong in school..guess what? You would be ****ed. There would be a bunch of kids a few years from now robbing you at gun point because I'm pretty certain any child at one point probably has said "I just want to quit school". Do you seriously think a child has the capacity to make wise decisions for themselves? I guess we should quit trying to feed them vegetables and healthy habits because hey, if they want candy **** it they don't need to be healthy THEY DESERVE diabetes? Seriously.
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Kids don't make wise decisions for themselves. That's why they need parents.
 
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