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Thread: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

  1. #161
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    nailed it
    Principals said they thought it was pointless to give critical judgments of tenured teachers. They also said they didn't want to deal with the grievance process that often accompanies poor evaluations, according to the report by the New Teacher Project, a non-profit focused on teacher quality.
    this what many of us keep mentioning
    management is not doing its job
    they are allowing inferior teachers to remain in the class rooms only because they refuse to do their job - managing staff

    it is not teachers
    it is not unions
    creating the problem of ineffective teachers being allowed to remain to inadequately teach class after class, year after year
    school management needs to be made to do its job
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  2. #162
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I have many times. Societially we don't believe in education. Students spend most their time trying not to learn, to get out of school. Parents are more concerned with grades than learning overall. Many are uninvolved. Too many. Too many politiicans govern what is doen, like NCLB removeing decisions from those who best know how to tackle problems. Students are required to go to school, and schools are largely required to to house them when not doing so would be better.

    An no, I've watched teachers take the brunt for a long, long time. teachers and unions, and unions really have little effect on teaching and learning at all. Most teachers are competent. As in any profession, a small percentage are superior. And small percentage is inferior. But most are well within competent standards. Attacking a major problem by looking at only one element of the problem is almost always fruitless.
    My experience with schools my son has gone to is materially different than what you reference above. Sure there are kids who have the wrong or no motivation regarding school. These seem to be the minority rather than the rule. Teachers also seem to have done a good job.

    The high school my son went to is filled with teachers who have degrees from great universities. They are also highly motivated, as the kids who go there are usually because they want to learn.

    While I agree that teachers are not the main problem, a union for teachers seems almost counter-intuitive. Just as each student should strive to be the best they can be or not learn what they need to, teachers should be judged on their talents.

  3. #163
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Your statement doesn't make sense. If they have fabulous performance, why does it matter what they are paid?

    Wouldn't fabulous performance mean they are teaching and the kids are learning?
    Mason... it dun flewed write ohver yer hed. Think about the statement for a minute... the answer is at the bottom of the post.
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    sarcasm. derision. mocking.
    you weren't serious were you?
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  4. #164
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    My experience with schools my son has gone to is materially different than what you reference above. Sure there are kids who have the wrong or no motivation regarding school. These seem to be the minority rather than the rule. Teachers also seem to have done a good job.

    The high school my son went to is filled with teachers who have degrees from great universities. They are also highly motivated, as the kids who go there are usually because they want to learn.

    While I agree that teachers are not the main problem, a union for teachers seems almost counter-intuitive. Just as each student should strive to be the best they can be or not learn what they need to, teachers should be judged on their talents.
    And rewarded or not according to them.

    We often hear the comparison to athletes... why teachers make so little by comparison. It's supply and demand, but not all jocks are paid equally either, and scholarships aren't handed out equally either. Performers usually are better compensated, and it should be so with teachers. The best teachers should earn a lot more. The duds should find other work.

    I will try to find a speech Jack Welch gave about the subject... or some comments. He worked with schools in NY (I think it was NY and not MA), and was disgusted to his core... teachers unions were the root of all evil, and it's understandable.

    How does this level of illiteracy, pure, unadulterated failure exist in the 21st century in a major American city? If it's not government and the unions... what is it? Lack of government? Not enough power for unions and pay for teachers?

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 05-07-11 at 06:50 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  5. #165
    Politically Correct

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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Anyone who is smart leaves Detroit. So this makes sense.

    Paying teachers better would probably increase the quality of teachers in Detroit. But Detroit probably can't afford that since its so poor. Additionally, having better teachers wouldn't solve the problem because all the smart kids would still leave Detroit.

    What the city needs is investors in general. It needs a bunch of east/west coasters to come in and make the area nice, create jobs, and pay taxes so the city can afford to start fixing itself and providing for its residents.

    But this won't happen any time soon. All those people seem to be going to Virginia, South Carolina, Tennessee, and the southwest at the moment.
    Last edited by Cameron; 05-07-11 at 07:13 PM.

  6. #166
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Anyone who is smart leaves Detroit. So this makes sense.

    Paying teachers better would probably increase the quality of teachers in Detroit. But Detroit probably can't afford that since its so poor. Additionally, having better teachers wouldn't solve the problem because all the smart kids would still leave Detroit.

    What the city needs is investors in general. It needs a bunch of east/west coasters to come in and make the area nice, create jobs, and pay taxes so the city can afford to start fixing itself and providing for its residents.

    But this won't happen any time soon. All those people seem to be going to Virginia, South Carolina, Tennessee, and the southwest at the moment.
    I completely agree. Detroit is a failed city, getting good teachers, getting rid of Unions, etc won't fix Detroit education system, not when the rest of the city is broken.

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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    I completely agree. Detroit is a failed city, getting good teachers, getting rid of Unions, etc won't fix Detroit education system, not when the rest of the city is broken.
    when many of the students come from broken homes where making good grades is hindered by parental lack of support, drug abuse, violence and being called "uncle tom" if you study hard, much more is needed



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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post

    How does this level of illiteracy, pure, unadulterated failure exist in the 21st century in a major American city? If it's not government and the unions... what is it? Lack of government? Not enough power for unions and pay for teachers?

    .
    Those questions have been answered over and over on this very thread. Just go back and read through it.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  9. #169
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Nah...why...do you keep your shrine to the king of the morons you worship daily in your living room or do you have a special room? Good thing those personal comments are all in fun, right?

    If you followed my plan those that actually stayed in school would survive and thrive. Kids wouldnt have to pass through metal detectors and the quality of their education wouldnt be reduced to the lowest common denominator. And you are at LEAST an apprentice 3rd level moron if you dont recognize that with the poluted product we today call 'schools' we dont already have all those problems you cited and more. You are a fan of evolution...right? Stop providing opportunites for people to fail. Stop excusing it. Try taking a stand and demanding a better quality product.
    As I stated before there are many outside influences that effect the way children learn that the education system can not stop no matter how strong or weak it is. This isn't an excuse this is just life. Being a new father, my child is healthier and developed more than most 4 month old children by this time, including her motor skills and such. This just isn't because of mine and her mothers constant attention it is also due to many of the colorful, educational toys that help her with her hand eye coordination, balance, and so on. This is just a simple example but many parents themselves do not have the money to afford the kinds of things we are able to afford for my daughter.

    So then you have Detroit. I'm sure like Cincinnati's work force, much of the workers there at GM or Ford in Detroit commute from outside neighborhoods out of the school district. So you are left with poorer people whos taxes aren't enough to provide the educational tools needed in the school. They themselves might be working to much, not be around enough, or just not have the money or as much time as they would hope to help their children develop.

    Me personally I believe our entire educational system needs an overhaul, I don't think that it's broken but much of what is taught is outdated and needs to be updated to compete with countries such as China and India. This sentiment has been reflected by politicans from both sides.
    "Weíre going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and thatís crazy." -Reagan

  10. #170
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    when many of the students come from broken homes where making good grades is hindered by parental lack of support, drug abuse, violence and being called "uncle tom" if you study hard, much more is needed
    Not to mention gang activity. I know it may seem simple to most of us, but remember how there were "cool kids" that everyone wanted to be friends with in school? Well cool kids in many of these cities are actually the gangs. They are drawn to these people for some reason and it is a terrible problem that constantly crops up. I don't know how Detroit handles it (perhaps they should invest into Robocop?) but I know places like Chicago, New York City, and Cincinnati have been able to counter it quite a bit the past ten years and I've only seen studies for NYC so far showing that it has had a net positive effect for the city all around including the schools.

    About the Uncle Tom part, I don't call it Uncle Tom I use the less racially offensive "Bill Cosby Black". I actually have quite a few friends that are "Bill Cosby Black", and they all do pretty good in life some of them do much, much better than me (One works for RIM actually) and they all have a few things in common: incredibly strict parents, structure, upper middle-class family, and working hard. All of them used the public school systems, one actually was in school in southern California so saying public schools is the total problem is absurd. They all are funny in that they don't much care for rap music, and they like things that aren't normally associated with blacks. They also deal with racism all the time and are constantly challenged because of their race.
    Last edited by JohnWOlin; 05-08-11 at 10:36 AM.
    "Weíre going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and thatís crazy." -Reagan

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