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Thread: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

  1. #91
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    No, administrators who don't know how to fire teachers prevent teachers from being fired. Due process =/= inability to be fired.
    A testament to willfull ignorance.........

    So its not the teacher's fault.....its not the Democrat Party's fault......its not the Union's fault.........

    .........its those damn Administrators.

    Out of over 100,000 public school teachers in Michigan, only nine were fired last year | Mark Hemingway | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner

    Out of over 100,000 public school teachers in Michigan, only nine were fired last year

    Absolutely amazing. If you want to know why teachers unions are pernicious and why America's education system is badly in need of a from-the-ground-up overhaul, just start looking at the issue of teacher tenure:

    After Timothy Grider was arrested for picking up a prostitute in 2009, Byron Center Public Schools suspended the special-education teacher.

    They also searched his classroom and found a half-empty bottle of vodka ó a violation of school policy.

    Grider didnít get fired. Instead, the 19-year veteran teacher agreed to resign for a yearís salary and benefits, a settlement worth $106,307.

    Public school teachers in Michigan and throughout the country are covered by tenure, a set of legal protections that makes their dismissal for incompetence or malfeasance a complicated and expensive process.

    As a result, tenured teachers are rarely fired. Michigan has more than 100,000 public school teachers, and in recent years about 60 cases annually have been filed with the State Tenure Commission, including disputes involving economic layoffs and charges of dismissal for cause. Of the commissionís 15 decisions during the 2009-10 school year, nine resulted in the dismissal of a teacher.

    Emphasis added. Note that this is not a problem unique to Michigan. The Los Angeles Unified School District -- the largest district in the country with over 33,000 teacher -- "spent $3.5 million trying to fire just seven of the district's 33,000 teachers for poor classroom performance ó and only four were fired" over the course of a decade.
    For the love of Pete......9 school teachers were fired from a state which has cities where 50% OF THE POPULATION CANT READ OR WRITE.

    Will you liberals please step foot outside of Imaginationland for but a moment.......

    ..........before the complete failure and bankruptcy that is Liberalism is fully realized.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    From the OP link:

    The Detroit Regional Workforce Fund’s efforts to connect low- and
    moderate-income persons to emerging and growing career pathways have
    highlighted a number of challenges in our education and employment
    infrastructure.
    We have identified that one of the most pressing of these challenges is the
    constrained capacity of Southeast Michigan’s underfunded and fragmented public
    workforce development system to meet the tremendous needs of a worker population
    that is terrifically challenged by limited basic skills. This skills gap threatens to
    substantially limit the success of the Fund’s education and training efforts, and
    ultimately participants’ success in connecting to careers.
    Increasing adult educational attainment is critical
    "Underfunded workforce development system", this from the workforce development system.

    Their solution: More adult education.

    It does appear that the publication has an agenda, doesn't it? Is illiteracy really as prevalent as they say? Suppose it is, what is the solution?

    Is it to try to lay blame on whoever we disagree with? How about throwing more money at the problem? Maybe we need more educational reform carried out by politicians who have no idea how to educate children or adults. That's worked out so well, as seen in the "No Child Left Behind" legislation.

    Or, perhaps we could base reform on research and experience of successful teachers. Oh, no, no, that would never do. It would empower the powerless, and that is never a good idea for those in power.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Yeah Boo, you're right. I did make an assumption, the assumption that a TEACHer's job is to TEACH. Wow, I guess that was a crazy idea now that I think about it. Based on your and other libby's posts, you think a teacher's job is to babysit, collect free healthcare, count the days down to their pension kicks in, and protest when told to by their union bosses.

    One question: How do you excuse the six or more teachers that passed these people on to the next grade knowing they couldn't even read. If they can't read a job application, they sure as hell couldn't read a history or geography book. Yet each teacher passed the problem off to the next one, who then passed them on to the next one, ad nauseum.

    I never said that teachers were the major problem with these kid's life, but they sure as hell are the major reason they can't even read.
    In all my life, I've only ever been sued once. It was by a parent. She was upset that her child failed. The fact he never came to class, a college class meant nothing to her. She believed it was my job to go to his dorm room and get him each day, make him go to class. She believed he had no responsibility. She had no responsibility. Only the teacher did. She lost the case, of course, but you're exhibiting the same type of thinking. Children are not blank slates, completely subject to the teacher.

    Also, parents and their pushing is in large part one reason why unprepared students are passed along. Chekc with your school and see how often PARENTS insist their child pass, but not that they actually know what is required.

    And no, the reason why a student fails can be outside the releam of any teacher. if you want to know if a teacher is doing their job, you have to obseve and assess. You cannot reach the assumption that if a student fails it is the teachers fault. Both students and parents are a factor in this as well. Not to mention the community they live in. In a country that devalues education ( a student once told me you did not want to be too smart), where our leaders and talking heads demonize and degrade intelligence and learning, it is not surprising that too many students focus on things other than learning. A foreign student who sat thorugh my classes a few years ago with his Spanish to English dictionary, struggling to even understand me, after he had been to Law school at the UofI, he stopped back and told me and my class that what was wrong with our system was that people made excuses for students, let everyone have an education, devaluing it, and that if we simply took it away, made people earn the right to an education, we'd do better.

    Not sure I agree with him, but I see what he's talking about. Students spend a good part of their lives trying to get out of being educated when they should be trying to learn. Instead of tackling these larger more difficult problems, we try to demonize those actually on the front lines trying to make a difference. Like many things, those who do this missunderstand the problems badly, and we continue to spin our wheels instead of actually digging in and working on real solutions.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    From the OP link:



    "Underfunded workforce development system", this from the workforce development system.

    Their solution: More adult education.

    It does appear that the publication has an agenda, doesn't it? Is illiteracy really as prevalent as they say? Suppose it is, what is the solution?

    Is it to try to lay blame on whoever we disagree with? How about throwing more money at the problem? Maybe we need more educational reform carried out by politicians who have no idea how to educate children or adults. That's worked out so well, as seen in the "No Child Left Behind" legislation.

    Or, perhaps we could base reform on research and experience of successful teachers. Oh, no, no, that would never do. It would empower the powerless, and that is never a good idea for those in power.
    Well said. Well said.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Clearly it's all the union's fault, and there are definitely not any additional social or economic factors that lead to this situation. And definitely not any educational factors like inner city schools being grossly overcrowded and underfunded. Nope. Definitely just the unions.

    Conservatives have turned teachers into the enemy. We're ****ing doomed.
    Well when all signs point to YES.......only a liberal could point to NO.........

    The Poorest American Cities of 2008 (1-30)

    1. Detroit, 33.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 52 years
    2. Cleveland, 30.5% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 20 years
    3. Buffalo, 30.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 43 years
    4. Newark, 26.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 102 years
    5. Miami, 25.6% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 52 years
    6. Fresno, 25.5% in poverty--Republican Mayor for the last 13 years
    7. Cincinnati, 25.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 29 years
    8. Toledo, 24.7% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 20 years
    9. El Paso, 24.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 120 years
    10.Philadelphia, 24.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 57 years
    11. Milwaukee, 23.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 49 years
    12. Memphis, 23.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 133 years
    13. St. Louis, 22.9% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 60 years
    14. Dallas, 22.6% in poverty--Republican Mayor for the last 2 years
    14 New Orleans,22.6% in poverty-Democrat Mayor for the last 141 years
    16. Atlanta, 22.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 130 years
    17. Stockton, Calif., 21.6% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
    18. Minneapolis, 21.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 35 years
    19. Pittsburgh, 21.2% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 21 years
    20. Tucson, 20.9% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
    21. Chicago, 20.6% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 78 years
    22. Columbus,Ohio 20.1% in poverty-Democrat Mayor for the last 9 years
    23. Long Beach, Calif., 19.8% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
    24. Houston, 19.5% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 88 years
    25 Los Angeles,19.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for "the last 8 years"
    26. Baltimore, 19.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 42 years
    27 San Antonio,19.2% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 38 years
    28. Phoenix, 18.9% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 5 years
    29. Boston, 18.7% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 79 years
    30. Denver, 18.4% in poverty----Democrat Mayor for the last 46 years

    What do all these cities have in common?

    .......besides high poverty, high crime, an abundance of Public Unions, and the most pathetic public school systems in the country?
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  6. #96
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    In all my life, I've only ever been sued once. It was by a parent. She was upset that her child failed. The fact he never came to class, a college class meant nothing to her. She believed it was my job to go to his dorm room and get him each day, make him go to class. She believed he had no responsibility. She had no responsibility. Only the teacher did. She lost the case, of course, but you're exhibiting the same type of thinking. Children are not blank slates, completely subject to the teacher.

    Also, parents and their pushing is in large part one reason why unprepared students are passed along. Chekc with your school and see how often PARENTS insist their child pass, but not that they actually know what is required.

    And no, the reason why a student fails can be outside the releam of any teacher. if you want to know if a teacher is doing their job, you have to obseve and assess. You cannot reach the assumption that if a student fails it is the teachers fault. Both students and parents are a factor in this as well. Not to mention the community they live in. In a country that devalues education ( a student once told me you did not want to be too smart), where our leaders and talking heads demonize and degrade intelligence and learning, it is not surprising that too many students focus on things other than learning. A foreign student who sat thorugh my classes a few years ago with his Spanish to English dictionary, struggling to even understand me, after he had been to Law school at the UofI, he stopped back and told me and my class that what was wrong with our system was that people made excuses for students, let everyone have an education, devaluing it, and that if we simply took it away, made people earn the right to an education, we'd do better.

    Not sure I agree with him, but I see what he's talking about. Students spend a good part of their lives trying to get out of being educated when they should be trying to learn. Instead of tackling these larger more difficult problems, we try to demonize those actually on the front lines trying to make a difference. Like many things, those who do this missunderstand the problems badly, and we continue to spin our wheels instead of actually digging in and working on real solutions.
    Your legal problems are interesting but irrelevant. College kids can do as they please, come to class or not, pass or fail. They are paying (or their parents) for the classes, so no one can force them to be there. Public school is very different. Kids up to a certain age are required to be there or the parents can be fined and/or jailed.

    If the kids don't come to class, contact the police or truant officer. That's all a teacher can do.

    Would you, have you passed kids that could not read or pass your tests ??

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  7. #97
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    Well when all signs point to YES.......only a liberal could point to NO.........

    The Poorest American Cities of 2008 (1-30)

    1. Detroit, 33.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 52 years
    2. Cleveland, 30.5% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 20 years
    3. Buffalo, 30.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 43 years
    4. Newark, 26.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 102 years
    5. Miami, 25.6% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 52 years
    6. Fresno, 25.5% in poverty--Republican Mayor for the last 13 years
    7. Cincinnati, 25.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 29 years
    8. Toledo, 24.7% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 20 years
    9. El Paso, 24.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 120 years
    10.Philadelphia, 24.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 57 years
    11. Milwaukee, 23.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 49 years
    12. Memphis, 23.1% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 133 years
    13. St. Louis, 22.9% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 60 years
    14. Dallas, 22.6% in poverty--Republican Mayor for the last 2 years
    14 New Orleans,22.6% in poverty-Democrat Mayor for the last 141 years
    16. Atlanta, 22.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 130 years
    17. Stockton, Calif., 21.6% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
    18. Minneapolis, 21.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 35 years
    19. Pittsburgh, 21.2% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 21 years
    20. Tucson, 20.9% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
    21. Chicago, 20.6% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 78 years
    22. Columbus,Ohio 20.1% in poverty-Democrat Mayor for the last 9 years
    23. Long Beach, Calif., 19.8% in poverty--No info available--probably Libs
    24. Houston, 19.5% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 88 years
    25 Los Angeles,19.4% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for "the last 8 years"
    26. Baltimore, 19.3% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 42 years
    27 San Antonio,19.2% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 38 years
    28. Phoenix, 18.9% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 5 years
    29. Boston, 18.7% in poverty--Democrat Mayor for the last 79 years
    30. Denver, 18.4% in poverty----Democrat Mayor for the last 46 years

    What do all these cities have in common?

    .......besides high poverty, high crime, an abundance of Public Unions, and the most pathetic public school systems in the country?
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    Right, right, it's all because they're Democrats. Maybe a voter registration drive is what is needed. Let them sign on as Republicans, and all will be well.

    For every problem, there is a simple partisan solution, logical (in a way), simple, understandable, and wrong.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i think we are looking at the same thing
    i will emphasize it below
    pointing out the fact that crack addiction and unwed birthrates are far higher in american black culture than american white culture is both factual and non-racist. And only a fool would claim that crack addiction or out of wedlock births are NOT detrimental



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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Too be honst, it depends on how you explain the nature of those problems. If you suggest it is something inherent in the race, then you're pretty much racist. it you look at the historical and societial problems that led to the problems, not so much.
    I merely pointed out the fact that problems exist. a couple people well known for hysterically calling others "racist" ASSUMED additional facts not in evidence



  10. #100
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    Re: Report: Nearly Half Of Detroiters Canít Read

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Your legal problems are interesting but irrelevant. College kids can do as they please, come to class or not, pass or fail. They are paying (or their parents) for the classes, so no one can force them to be there. Public school is very different. Kids up to a certain age are required to be there or the parents can be fined and/or jailed.

    If the kids don't come to class, contact the police or truant officer. That's all a teacher can do.

    Would you, have you passed kids that could not read or pass your tests ??
    Actually, you hacve less contol over younger children than you think. Being there is not the same as being there to learn. Had a student argue once that he was there. he was. Asleep.

    I had the freedom not to. There was a story some years back about a teacher who did as you suggest. Parents when nuts, and the students were given passing grades. And not because the teacher wanted to, or that the school wanted to, but because parents insisted. This is parental involvement and the teachers fault.

    often whenyou go into meet with a teacher, they load up and brace for an attack, and not largely because their student hasn't learned something, but because they know the parent only wants one thing a good majority of the time, and that is pass my child, period!

    The point is, you are ignoring all these factors and trying to pin in in one place. There any many people responsile for these problems, and not just the teacher. Most teachers are competent and doing the best they can with what they have, meaning the rules and parents and materials and conditions they ahve to work in. As a lot of those things are poor, a significant number of teacher s leave the field early. Therea re easier ways to make a dollar.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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