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Thread: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

  1. #51
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    No... you went out and gave away money you did not have.. tax cuts, and 2 wars.. your logic is flawed, not to mention quite childish.
    Yep, sounds like the Democratic Congress, Obama, and the EU doesn't it ????

    Actually that is only partly correct. There was also surpluses under Clinton. Point is, most deficits were relatively minor until Reagan and Bush Jr. The US debt only started to explode under Reagan and especially under Bush Jr.
    If you had actually read what I posted, you would have noticed that I acknowledged the surpluses under Clinton courtesy of the Republican Congress.

    So live on the street, starve and freeze to death is your solution to the problem?
    Wow, you really do have some issue with reading comprehension today don't you ??? Perhaps you could point out where I said that ???

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    for decades!
    Social Security Trust Fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    When a wikipedia link is more informed than you are, you should reexamine your position.

    Edit: No offense to wikipedia editors. I know how hard the organization works to maintain high standards of quality and fight misinformation and vandalism.
    Last edited by Indon; 05-03-11 at 02:47 PM.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Everybody wants the govt to spend less of our money, few want to give the govt more money. This is a non partisan issue. The difference is that many Democrats see society as a communal project while many Republicans don't.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Indon View Post
    Social Security Trust Fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    When a wikipedia link is more informed than you are, you should reexamine your position.

    Edit: No offense to wikipedia editors. I know how hard the organization works to maintain high standards of quality and fight misinformation and vandalism.
    If all you are relying on is Wikipedia as a credible source, then you should reexamine YOUR position.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit


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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    ss and the m's make up 57% of the federal budget

    obama's 2012 proposal published in february cuts them ZERO

    Entitlement Reform: Why Lawmakers Stuck on Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security Reforms - ABC News

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    on march one, the GOVT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE reported an entire HALF TRILLION DOLLARS of waste, fraud and abuse in govt spending

    GAO Finds Massive Waste, Duplication - FoxBusiness.com

    what's more, "most," according to gao, came in "fiscal years 2009 to 2010 and moving forward"

    also, "most programs," finds gao, have never been "reviewed for their effectiveness"

    and some feel compelled to define waste?

    too abstruse, abraham

    NO MORE MONEY FOR MANAGERS SO MOROSE

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Indon View Post
    Medicare and SS are aimed at alleviating poverty among the elderly, not eliminating it. If we wanted to eliminate poverty, we'd need to get all Finland up in here.
    That was the original intent of the Great Society programs.

    And it has been for some years. But before that, for decades, SS/Medicare took in more than they spent to build up a large surplus that is still being cut into. SS/Medicare are in deficit but they do not add to the national debt because the programs still run a surplus and will continue to do so for a couple decades.
    It was never supposed to go into deficit, and the spending projections were way off. The funds were raided for the general fund many times over the years. The fact that it is eventually going to get a deficit is a problem.

    Cite or it didn't happen.
    Hauser's Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Non sequitur. "There were already ways to evade taxes, and therefore reducing tax rates didn't actually reduce tax rates!" is a stupid argument, as reducing the tax rates did not in fact get rid of the tax loopholes - and now the wealthy both exploit loopholes and pay low tax rates in order to, effectively, pay lower rates than many of us non-rich.
    It's not a non-sequitur, you just don't understand the history. When those tax cuts happened in the 80s, Reagan got the Democrats to go along with it by agreeing to end all of the tax deductions that were there when the highest marginal tax rate was about 70%. The result was that the effective tax rate did not change much.

    Seeing the massive impact on government revenues the comparatively small Bush tax cuts have had, I don't believe you for a second.
    Hauser's Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Current taxation levels are well below the appx. 20% of GDP mark. We could raise taxes by 33% across the board (or, alternately, raise it on the wealthy to an appropriate level) and expect it to have an impact, even if we take Hauser's Law as fact, which is a generous assumption.
    It's not a generous assumption. European countries have much higher tax rates than the US, but get about the same fraction of revenue/GDP.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    nope.....we cannot get ourselves out without raises taxes. wrong, wrong and wrong.
    Wrong. Raising taxes in an economy like this would be suicide. We can get out by drastically reducing spending which is something most politicians are not willing to do.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    If all you are relying on is Wikipedia as a credible source, then you should reexamine YOUR position.
    Since you obviously didn't read the article, perhaps you should have noted the multiple external citations explaining what the Wikipedia article says.

    Wikipedia articles are externally cited, you see.

    Would you prefer I simply cited each of them to you directly so that you could read all of them? Or are you capable of clicking on a link and reading them yourself?

    SS deficits don't add to the national debt, as your story notes, because it draws upon a fund.

    A raise in the SS payroll tax cap would easily cover SS' continued operation indefinitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    on march one, the GOVT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE reported an entire HALF TRILLION DOLLARS of waste, fraud and abuse in govt spending
    It's clear you never read the report. Don't worry, I got it for you.
    http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11318sp.pdf

    Take a look at the items. None of them are, "We need to cut entitlements." A whole lot are, "If we restructure bureaucracy X, we can eliminate unnecessary duplication of work." Some _big_ ones concern the DoD.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It's not a non-sequitur, you just don't understand the history. When those tax cuts happened in the 80s, Reagan got the Democrats to go along with it by agreeing to end all of the tax deductions that were there when the highest marginal tax rate was about 70%. The result was that the effective tax rate did not change much.
    And then they reinstated them, which was very clever on the part of the conservatives. It's clear that, in retrospect, dropping the tax rate was a very bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    From that article:
    Quote Originally Posted by The thing you just linked
    However, 2009 tax collections, at 15% of GDP, were the lowest level of the past 50 years and 4.5 percentage points lower than Hauser's Law suggests. The Heritage Foundation has stated that the recent world economic recession pushed receipts to a level significantly below the historical average.
    Also, kind of silly that conservatives excuse a law that supposedly links a major economic metric with taxes, with what is essentially the underperformance of that metric.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It's not a generous assumption. European countries have much higher tax rates than the US, but get about the same fraction of revenue/GDP.
    You clearly never actually looked at the linked list of List of countries by tax revenue as percentage of GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Because you're wrong and in fact, Hauser's Law is very clearly not the case in practice, and is total bunk. Seriously, Brazil has massively higher tax by GDP than we do. Brazil!

    Is it so much to ask for people on the internet to do their homework on what we're talking about? I mean, it's the internet, this information is all freely available to anyone who knows how to work google a bit.

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