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Thread: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    We can't increase taxes and shouldn't increase taxes to accommodate for wasteful spending. The problem is the spending, not the revenue.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And you are in denial. Spending is a problem, but so is the lack of revenue.
    I'm sorry, was your opinion regarding the US federal budget welcome? I didn't think so. Why don't you stick to worrying about the Bellota groves, the Iberico boars, and the pending socialist government default in Spain.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    If so many people run up debt and carry credit card balances month to month, did we expect our national government to act any different.
    My family is more important than my party.
    -Zell Miller

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Dog View Post
    If so many people run up debt and carry credit card balances month to month, did we expect our national government to act any different.
    The difference is that the people running up credit card balances can't decide to raise their credit limit every few months like Congress does.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    The difference is that the people running up credit card balances can't decide to raise their credit limit every few months like Congress does.
    Thats the banks job that issued the credit card. LOL
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    -Zell Miller

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Revenue in 2010 is about the same as it was in 2004, but spending is almost a trillion dollars more.
    Two issues with this.

    First off, you admit that revenue has not kept up with spending, hence that is a major issue that any 1st year economics student would know. And that was exactly the complaints in the last decade over the Bush economic plan.. starting 2 wars and giving massive tax cuts to the wealthy.. it is economics 101.. you would get a freaking F for doing that in a paper.

    Secondly, even in 2004, the revenue was not enough to meet the spending... there was by those standard then, record deficits. So already then you had a problem.. hell you had a problem under Reagan as well, who grew your debt almost threefold.

    Like it or not the last 30 years of American conservative economic theory has been an utter failure. When people on the left claimed (for partisan reasons of course) that there was a deficit, then people like Cheney and other "intellectuals" on the right said it did not matter.. jobs and economic growth mattered.... then guess what.. the left were 100% right! Now that the very same people on the right are in the opposition then suddenly the deficits matter... hypocrites.... and of course the people on the left are silent because they are in power.. also hypocrites.

    Like it or not, you will need to increase revenue and cut spending.. lets take it to primary school level for the US right (some).. seems to be a standard on Fox News these days.

    If you have outlays of 100 dollars a month but only earn 60 dollars, the you either have to cut 40 dollars of your outlays or increase your income. Now if your rent/food/utilities are alone 70 dollars (aka stuff that is damn hard to cut), then cutting the total 40 dollars is unrealistic.. unless you want to have no home or no food or no heat/water. So your only alternative is to get more income to cover what is left.... a second job for example..

    Hope that clears it up...
    PeteEU

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Pete, the deficit under Bush and Cheney is nothing compared to Obama's. It wasn't conservative economic policies to bail out businesses under Bush or Obama. Bush ran a deficit because of war spending. Obama is running an astronomically larger deficit due to stimulus spending, bail outs, and other unneeded spending. The liberal economists believe we can spend our way out of the recession and pay to keep unemployment down. This hasn't worked and has only contributed to a very large debt that is now encroaching upon the legal debt ceiling. Liberal economic policies have failed and damaged us from the Bush and Obama administrations. The answer is to dramatically lower spending, lower taxes, and move away from being oil dependent on the Middle East. Keep more money circulating in the economy and in the hands of the people and not in government coffers that will be wasted and unproductive.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    The problem with polls like this is they don't ask the obvious follow up:

    Define 'Wasteful Government Spending":

    **Farm Subsidies
    **Energy Subsidies
    **Bank Bail Outs
    **AIG Bail Out
    **Auto Bail Out
    **Tax Breaks to Business
    **Afganistan War
    **Iraq War
    **Infrastructure
    **Medicare
    **Medicaid
    **Social Security
    **Veterans Programs
    **Other Misc Entitlements
    **Science and Tech Grants
    **Education Grants
    **Govt Employee Health-Care
    **Govt Employee Travel
    **Govt Employee Salary

    I've read some Congressmen sleep in their office because the cost of renting an apartment in DC is too high. Why not build a dorm and make it mandatory for all Senators and Congressmen to live there? Cut their salaries, cut their travel, cut their staff... Make it mostly volunteer.

    Prohibit non-infrastructure pet projects.

    Form a bi-partisan citizens board to approve all grants to research.

    Social Security / Medicare - allow people to Opt out. But make some earnings requirements.

    We could abolish Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid with a Public Option - Single Payer System.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    All social spending is a waste because we still have poverty.
    Medicare and SS are aimed at alleviating poverty among the elderly, not eliminating it. If we wanted to eliminate poverty, we'd need to get all Finland up in here.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Social Security spends more than it takes in. Same for Medicare/Medicaid.
    And it has been for some years. But before that, for decades, SS/Medicare took in more than they spent to build up a large surplus that is still being cut into. SS/Medicare are in deficit but they do not add to the national debt because the programs still run a surplus and will continue to do so for a couple decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Revenue as a percentage of GDP has stayed constant.
    Cite or it didn't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Those tax breaks did not change much because there were a lot of tax deductions before.
    Non sequitur. "There were already ways to evade taxes, and therefore reducing tax rates didn't actually reduce tax rates!" is a stupid argument, as reducing the tax rates did not in fact get rid of the tax loopholes - and now the wealthy both exploit loopholes and pay low tax rates in order to, effectively, pay lower rates than many of us non-rich.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Either way, changing the tax rate had very little effect on government revenues.
    Seeing the massive impact on government revenues the comparatively small Bush tax cuts have had, I don't believe you for a second.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Just get rid of the programs. More taxes will not bring in more money as Hauser's Law has shown.
    Current taxation levels are well below the appx. 20% of GDP mark. We could raise taxes by 33% across the board (or, alternately, raise it on the wealthy to an appropriate level) and expect it to have an impact, even if we take Hauser's Law as fact, which is a generous assumption.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Pete, the deficit under Bush and Cheney is nothing compared to Obama's. It wasn't conservative economic policies to bail out businesses under Bush or Obama. Bush ran a deficit because of war spending. Obama is running an astronomically larger deficit due to stimulus spending, bail outs, and other unneeded spending. The liberal economists believe we can spend our way out of the recession and pay to keep unemployment down. This hasn't worked and has only contributed to a very large debt that is now encroaching upon the legal debt ceiling. Liberal economic policies have failed and damaged us from the Bush and Obama administrations. The answer is to dramatically lower spending, lower taxes, and move away from being oil dependent on the Middle East. Keep more money circulating in the economy and in the hands of the people and not in government coffers that will be wasted and unproductive.

    nope.....we cannot get ourselves out without raises taxes. wrong, wrong and wrong.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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