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Thread: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Rampant, unbridled, consumerism is also responsible for nearly all personal debt.....
    Holy ****, Bill! Do we agree on something!?!?!?

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by pzycho View Post
    Holy ****, Bill! Do we agree on something!?!?!?
    Sometimes I sip a little of the koolaid that you consume by the gallon.....
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Indon View Post
    As previously noted, through income/payroll taxes the government does tax itself.
    and how much of the stimulus ramp up in government spending was in wage hikes that otherwise wouldn't have been?

    Yeah, the fellow's point is that SS/Medicare, the entitlements conservatives so malign, isn't actually generating that 1.5 trillion deficit, and that maybe we should address said 1.5 trillion deficit instead of going after programs irrelevant to the problem.
    yeah the fellows point also depends on Medicare not existing. when we get to the 2020's, Medicare, Medicaid, and SS will suck up every single tax dollar. No money to pay interest on the debt, no department of education, no department of defense, no housing and urban development, nothing but Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. after that the problem get's worse. those are indeed the problem.

    You even seem to acknowledge that the deficit isn't related to entitlement spending.
    that's because the deficit is absolutely related to entitlement spending, especially as we drive into the future and the baby boomers fully move into retirement.

    No, no, he's talking about revenues. I previously cited the source - twice, once specifying that it was in fact to cite Joe's argument - that notes that, in fact, US tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is very low compared to other wealthy nations.
    that's nice. what you didn't do was demonstrate any point in US history where we have even come close to generating 24% of our GDP in tax revenues - even under tax rates far higher than they are today.

    Except that our tax codes have so many exceptions that the actual effective tax rates are generally very low - the US has one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the OECD based on _what corporations actually pay_.
    well, when you make it worth millions or billions to spend hundreds of thousands reducing your tax bill - then yeah.
    the cost of compliance with our tax code is around $431 Billion due to our idiotic decision to have a regime of high rates with high exemptions. squeeze out those hundreds of billions into productive uses by lowering both rates and exemptions to achieve revenue neutrality, and you will see some impressive growth. that's why the Presidents' Bi-Partisan debt reduction commission proposed exactly that.

    Since US military spending almost doubled between 1998 and 2008 (US Military Spending Since 1998 | Peace Action Maine ), and our GDP didn't remotely double, I'm not at all buying those graphs. I call shenanigans.
    1. you are correct that military spending has risen over the past 10 years.
    2. this in no way alters the fact that we are below our historical average.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel
    As we have seen in recent years, American-style capitalism has been a miserable failure. It has created economic devastation unseen since the last time it failed miserably, the Great Depression. With such a legacy, I can't imagine why you're defending it.
    you think that the government interfering in the housing market and then delaying a recovery through massive expansion funded by the withdrawal of liquidity from the private market is capitalism?

    Corporatism, man, it's Corporatism.

    Eric Cantor just admitted the Republican Medicare plan will deny some seniors the care they need.
    since the Republican plan does not "deny" anyone (that would be the President's brilliant lets-just-have-rationing idea) anything, and doesn't effect current seniors at all (again, in contradiction to the Presidents' plan), I would like very much to see your citation

    FACT: reduction in medicare expenditures off the baseline will occur. not because our politicians are evil and stupid (though many of them are), but because we don't have 60+ $trillion in cash to afford what is currently promised. and we're not going to get that through taxes - the world doesn't have it. the question comes down to - who do you want to have the power over "what gets' cut" - patients and doctors? or bureaucrats?

    Ryan's budget plan actually will increase the deficit.
    Ryan's plan doesn't balance the budget for several more years, this is true. It does reduce the deficit off of the current baseline. the President's plan doesn't balance the budget at all, and it increases the deficit off of the current baseline.

    Somehow these guys are managed to convince a segment of the population that what they plan to do is better than what already have. I attribute that to demagoguery.
    no, demagoguery is demagoguery.

    this:

    The Republican budget will destroy Medicare…

    There is an effort to bury this program that has kept the grandmothers and granddads and America’s children alive for them to be able to see their grandchildren grow up because they’ve had good healthcare. Where is the morality?

    I just want to paint the picture of ‘no room at the inn:’ ‘Lights out, doors wide open and the drumbeat playing as people are being rolled out of nursing homes in wheelchairs, with crutches, some on beds.

    Maybe we can just imagine the tragic scenes of Hurricane Katrina, when nursing home residents were pouring out of nursing homes in the wake of the disaster…Well let me tell you we’ve got Hurricane Ryan, and there’s a disaster coming.
    - (Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D., Texas))

    this is demagoguery. Accusing republicans of wanting to kill old people and autistic kids, that's demagoguery. Pointing out that Medicare and Social Security expenditures are set to explode at a rate faster than revenues have any prayer of keeping up - and that we are already heavily in debt - that's not demagoguery. that's math.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Sometimes I sip a little of the koolaid that you consume by the gallon.....
    Yeah, it's hard to stop cause it tastes so GOOD!!! Maybe you need an intervention....

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by pzycho View Post
    Yeah, it's hard to stop cause it tastes so GOOD!!! Maybe you need an intervention....
    No thanks, I prefer sobriety....and your koolaid is spiked.
    I make less foolish decisions when sober...
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    I watched a VP try, over a period of many months, to change our work methods. He kept saying we should work smarter, not harder, to save money in the operating budget.
    Problem is, he never fired any of us for not following his plan. My supervisor said something to the effect of "we aren't here to save money, we are here to make our product".
    When it became obvious that the VP was being ignored by middle management, he should have issued an ultimatum to his direct reports, either find ways to get this plan moving, or find another job. Have them pass that down the ranks to each level. Then start interviewing prospective replacements. When you see your own job on the job openings list, it should motivate you.
    Give them 1 month. At the end of the month, start firing people....
    Until that happens, people won't change.
    It is the same with government jobs. We have small carrots and smaller sticks, neither have much influence on us. Motivation is easier to come by when the carrot is large, and the stick is huge.
    I bet that the majority of govt workers know several ways to save money right off the tops of thier heads, but are afraid to speak up for fear of reprisals from their middle management bosses. Those kinds of bosses need to go first.
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    quite the opposite; we are directed to find ways to spend money, so that the money won't go away and next year's budget will be as big or bigger.

    anyone who has ever worked in government should laugh uproariously at anyone else who suggests that government spending is efficient and productive.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    No thanks, I prefer sobriety....and your koolaid is spiked.
    I make less foolish decisions when sober...
    Excellent! You dismiss my opinions as foolish and being without merit because I am drunk. Nice way to argue the merits. Just wave your hands incomprehensibly and declare me irrational. Just goes to show me that you are incapable of intelligently countering my views. That makes you a bit of a hack.

    sippy, sippy...NC mountain shine....

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by pzycho View Post
    Excellent! You dismiss my opinions as foolish and being without merit because I am drunk. Nice way to argue the merits. Just wave your hands incomprehensibly and declare me irrational. Just goes to show me that you are incapable of intelligently countering my views. That makes you a bit of a hack.

    sippy, sippy...NC mountain shine....
    see, this is the stage that is the problem...you have sipped enough to become belligerent, but not enough to fall asleep....
    Have another pint.....
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    see, this is the stage that is the problem...you have sipped enough to become belligerent, but not enough to fall asleep....
    Have another pint.....
    It's Sunday, you know. Blue Laws in the Southeast - Baptist Central, or is it the Methodists? I can never keep track. Don't **** with the Methodists!

    Damn evangelical Christians trying to save us from ourselves...it's almost as bad as the government doing so, except the Christians can at least point to the sinning, whereas the government has to proclaim it is for our health. What's next? No In'n'Out cheeseburgers? Jeez.

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