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Thread: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

  1. #161
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the government doesn't usually tax itself, and so the natural drop in private sector GDP has fed into that trend to decrease taxation as a % of GDP.
    As previously noted, through income/payroll taxes the government does tax itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    SS is "ok until 2037" only so long as you assume that there is no such thing as Medicare, or a $14 Trillion federal debt, or a $1.5 Trillion annual deficit, or the need to have the federal government do anything else. at all. SS is "okay until 2037" in the same sense that "i can afford a $5,000 a month mortgage because my income is 5K a month".
    Yeah, the fellow's point is that SS/Medicare, the entitlements conservatives so malign, isn't actually generating that 1.5 trillion deficit, and that maybe we should address said 1.5 trillion deficit instead of going after programs irrelevant to the problem.

    You even seem to acknowledge that the deficit isn't related to entitlement spending.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    see, again, we see the breakdown here. we aren't talking about tax rates. we are talking about tax revenues. you were claiming we could increase revenues to a certain percent of our GDP - when in fact we have never even approached the percent you were suggesting, even under tax rates that would be considered impossibly high (91%) today.
    No, no, he's talking about revenues. I previously cited the source - twice, once specifying that it was in fact to cite Joe's argument - that notes that, in fact, US tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is very low compared to other wealthy nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    as for comparing us to Western Europe - alright. According to the OECD, the US has the most progressive income tax structure of any industrialized nation, and our corporate tax on top of that is (barely) the second highest in the OECD - and number one, Japan, is planning on cutting. Meanwhile Canada across our border is looking to slash hers' even further, despite the fact that their rate is already less than half of ours.
    Except that our tax codes have so many exceptions that the actual effective tax rates are generally very low - the US has one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the OECD based on _what corporations actually pay_.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    US military spending as a percentage of GDP, 1940--2003
    Since US military spending almost doubled between 1998 and 2008 (US Military Spending Since 1998 | Peace Action Maine ), and our GDP didn't remotely double, I'm not at all buying those graphs. I call shenanigans.

  2. #162
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    just raise the payroll tax...

    no problem?

    wow

    then why won't barack the slasher go there?
    I'm not a big Obama fan so I won't defend him except against the most egregious distortions, misrepresentations and deceptions.

    I general, I don't think Obama is a good friend of the American People where Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are involved. He seems too willing to make deals with the Republicans.
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by pzycho View Post
    Yes, and they are prime examples of why we shouldn't. Unless you want the limit to be 35% federal tax rates and everyone employed by the government. It's the difference between Anglo-Saxon capitalism and Franco social democracy. If you want the latter, move your ass to France and wear a cute little blue jersey to work.
    As we have seen in recent years, American-style capitalism has been a miserable failure. It has created economic devastation unseen since the last time it failed miserably, the Great Depression. With such a legacy, I can't imagine why you're defending it.
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    As we have seen in recent years, American-style capitalism has been a miserable failure. It has created economic devastation unseen since the last time it failed miserably, the Great Depression. With such a legacy, I can't imagine why you're defending it.
    Nonsense, just because unemployment is over 10% and lending is sluggish does not mean that capitalism has created "economic devastation". This is nothing like the Great Depression. In fact, since over 90% of all employment is in the private sector, a pro-business economic and political atmosphere is exactly what is needed to crawl out of the malaise. That means lower taxes, especially on job creators. More Keynesian fiscal spending promoting consumerism, along with higher taxes, is not the right answer. ****ing socialists.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    you certainly did not.
    What did I miss? You linked to guys stating opinions and providing no support for them. Do you have the numbers they didn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    conservative demagoguery? who is out there accusing whom of wanting to kill grandmothers and autistic children?
    Eric Cantor just admitted the Republican Medicare plan will deny some seniors the care they need. Ryan's budget plan actually will increase the deficit. Somehow these guys are managed to convince a segment of the population that what they plan to do is better than what already have. I attribute that to demagoguery.
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by pzycho View Post
    Nonsense, just because unemployment is over 10% and lending is sluggish does not mean that capitalism has created "economic devastation". This is nothing like the Great Depression. In fact, since over 90% of all employment is in the private sector, a pro-business economic and political atmosphere is exactly what is needed to crawl out of the malaise. That means lower taxes, especially on job creators. More Keynesian fiscal spending promoting consumerism, along with higher taxes, is not the right answer. ****ing socialists.
    Do you realize consumer spending is responsible for around 67% of GDP? What is a better way to support prosperity than promoting consumerism?
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    vote obama, 2012!

    american style capitalism has been a miserable failure!

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    what is a better way to support prosperity than promoting consumerism?

    american style capitalism is a miserable failure!

    vote obama 2012!

    know the man

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    Do you realize consumer spending is responsible for around 67% of GDP? What is a better way to support prosperity than promoting consumerism?
    Promoting savings and investment. Get off the boom/bust treadmill.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    Do you realize consumer spending is responsible for around 67% of GDP? What is a better way to support prosperity than promoting consumerism?
    Rampant, unbridled, consumerism is also responsible for nearly all personal debt.....
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