Page 16 of 21 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 205

Thread: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

  1. #151
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    07-23-12 @ 03:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    6,763
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    You should check the average tax rates for OECD countries. The US is near the bottom and some countries in Western Europe are above 30%. If they can do it, we can too.
    Yes, and they are prime examples of why we shouldn't. Unless you want the limit to be 35% federal tax rates and everyone employed by the government. It's the difference between Anglo-Saxon capitalism and Franco social democracy. If you want the latter, move your ass to France and wear a cute little blue jersey to work.

    Regarding Anglo-Saxon capitalism, our adherence to a Keynesian consumerism model, with the consequent Fed actions making money cheap, encourages a boom/bust cycle. A modified Hayekian model of savings, with realistic safety net support for the unfortunate (non laisez faire) would be a much healthier model.

  2. #152
    User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    05-09-11 @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    91

    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    : and how do you plan on producing this; given that it has never been accomplished. even the 91% top marginal rates didn't get us above the historical average of about 18.5 - 19%
    To provide the list for Joe Steel's argument, for your reference: List of countries by tax revenue as percentage of GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It should be noted further that our percentage of taxation by GDP has sharply declined since, well, your chart stopped. We could concievably increase our current taxation about 30% to reach the 20% level.

  3. #153
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,114

    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    starting in 2008 and exploding in 2009 government spending as a percent of GDP has grown beyond rationality. the government doesn't usually tax itself, and so the natural drop in private sector GDP has fed into that trend to decrease taxation as a % of GDP. we have no conceivable way with our current tax structure to guarantee reaching 20% of GDP (a measure only reached by high growth and low taxes) by raising taxes, and certainly we have not a prayer of ever achieving 24% as the poster claimed.

  4. #154
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,114

    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    I addressed the links you provided.
    you certainly did not.

    Current law is the basis for Conservative demagoguery
    conservative demagoguery? who is out there accusing whom of wanting to kill grandmothers and autistic children?

    SS is OK until around 2037. After that, we could have some trouble.
    SS is "ok until 2037" only so long as you assume that there is no such thing as Medicare, or a $14 Trillion federal debt, or a $1.5 Trillion annual deficit, or the need to have the federal government do anything else. at all. SS is "okay until 2037" in the same sense that "i can afford a $5,000 a month mortgage because my income is 5K a month".

    The good news is, we avert the trouble with a small payroll tax increase now.
    actually we can't - popping the cap doesn't get us nearly enough revenue.

    Medicare is a thornier problem but one which will respond well to getting healthcare costs under control. I'd recommend universal, single-payer.
    rationing, you mean. no thanks - i prefer to have choices about what care to get or not to get be made by patients and doctors rather than faceless, unaccountable bureacrats.

    "Unfunded liabilities" is a scare tactic
    a scare tactic? dude, unfunded liabilities is merely using the same kind of accounting that we send CEO's in the private sector to jail for if they don't follow. but for some reasons politicians never seem to apply such rules to themselves.....

    The cost of supporting the aged is going to be with us regardless of who bears it.
    true. but utilizing market mechanizations can cause it to decrease - and we are fools if we don't take advantage of that.

    It will either come from private resources or public resources. In either case, we will have to find the money somewhere and it will affect the economy. Better to find the most efficient way to deal with it.
    and that most efficient way has been demonstrated again and again to be a free-trade model. glad you see things our way.

  5. #155
    Educator

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Seen
    07-08-11 @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    1,235

    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Unfortunately, this is wrong. It's not because of wasteful spending. It's not because we give 500 million to heating programs. It's because of entitlements created 50 years ago along with a gigantic military build up in the 80s that never went back to normal levels.

  6. #156
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,114

    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    never went back to normal levels? we are under the average of spending on Defense for the post-war era.

  7. #157
    Educator

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Seen
    07-08-11 @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    1,235

    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    never went back to normal levels? we are under the average of spending on Defense for the post-war era.
    I said 1980s. I didn't say world war 2. We've had a gigantic military budget ever since Reagan, and it did not draw down like it should have. We don't have any industrial military super powers that are our enemies right now, and there is no need for a budget this large. It's that simple. China is not a major US ally, but we are not by any means hostile with them, and they are the closest second to us in terms of military spending. Like I've mentioned, compared to us, they are nothing. They just have a lot of soldiers.

  8. #158
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,114

    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    You should check the average tax rates for OECD countries. The US is near the bottom and some countries in Western Europe are above 30%. If they can do it, we can too.
    see, again, we see the breakdown here. we aren't talking about tax rates. we are talking about tax revenues. you were claiming we could increase revenues to a certain percent of our GDP - when in fact we have never even approached the percent you were suggesting, even under tax rates that would be considered impossibly high (91%) today.

    as for comparing us to Western Europe - alright. According to the OECD, the US has the most progressive income tax structure of any industrialized nation, and our corporate tax on top of that is (barely) the second highest in the OECD - and number one, Japan, is planning on cutting. Meanwhile Canada across our border is looking to slash hers' even further, despite the fact that their rate is already less than half of ours.
    Last edited by cpwill; 05-07-11 at 12:18 PM.

  9. #159
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,114

    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuan View Post
    I said 1980s. I didn't say world war 2. We've had a gigantic military budget ever since Reagan
    US military spending as a percentage of GDP, 1940--2003



    woops?

    US military spending as a percentage of discretionary spending, 1962--2003



    as a percent of GDP and as a percent of discretionary spending current Military Spending is below historical norms. The entitlements are exploding, yes. But an explosion in military spending? please.

  10. #160
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,105

    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    MOVED FROM OTHER THREAD....

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    The military is Constitutional, and national security is Job#1.

    Want to cut something... look outside our national security interests... there is a ginormous pig, squealing, farting, belching and puking... trying to hide behind the national security Eagle.

    Here is what the pig looks like, and those spinning numbers won't stop if we cut all our military expenditures.
    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

    .
    Thank you for your emotional argument with assorted irrelevant facts and opinions. I do not understand the relevance of your assertion that the military is constitutional to my argument of imperialism is expensive. Both assertions can be true and one does not refute the other.

    To take on your issues directly, note the preamble to the US Consistitution:

    "...We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America...."

    1. Note the that US Government has broad charters for several things, the common defence being one of many. I do not see any particular ranking of the broad tasks of the government under this charter. I am not certain how you deduce that "national security" much less "common defence" is "job #1).
    2. "our national security interests" is a very vague term and is not necessarily "common defence"
    3. Our forefathers did not envision a standing army.... it is impossible to be an imperialist nation without a standing army. Therefore, I do not believe they would be particularly happy with how be have perverted "common defence" as a meaning we should have bases throughout the world and be in the middle of the domestic issues of others, given our very existence is because of rebellion from UK imperialism. (my opinion)
    4. Our desire to conquer and manipulate the world is broadly tucked under our "national security interests".... but what we do under that umbrella is open for debate.
    5. Having a weak balance sheet (debt and running deficits) could be argued as a threat to "national security"
    6. I understand the debt clock. I don't believe, however, you can be serious about getting our financial house in order if you are unwilling to look at the defense budget, which is by far our largest discretionary budget item. If you want bases in Iraq, then please explain how we pay for them (taxes?)
    7. No where in my post did I suggest cutting "all of our military expenditures" or confining budget cuts only to the defense department.

    YouTube - Standing Army film documentary
    Ron Paul and Barney Frank: Cut Military Spending!
    Last edited by upsideguy; 05-07-11 at 01:50 PM.

Page 16 of 21 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •