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Thread: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

  1. #121
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    You're wrong.

    We have a revenue problem not a spending problem.
    one begets the other....
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    one begets the other....
    Although in this case it is in reverse order. Regardless of the claim that there was a surplus during the Clinton years, and we must credit both Clinton and the Republican congress for that, it never took into account the unfunded liability projections which BLOW AWAY the current debt (like by 9 times!!!). The trend is clear, entitlement growth since 1950 is sucking budget and the percentage of GDP calculation allocated to federal government spending is steadily increasing.

    IT DOES NOT MATTER IF WE RAISE TAXES TO COVER PART OF OUR GOVERNMENT SPENDING! TAX REVENUES WILL STAY BETWEEN 14% AND 20% AND WE STILL RUN A 40% DEFICIT.

    WE MUST CUT SPENDING AND IT MUST BE MANDATORY SPENDING.

  3. #123
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    one begets the other....
    I don't think so.

    Governments are created to do things. That takes money and, presumably, legislators know it. If they don't fund the spending, the defict is caused by politics not necessarily the economics of the situation.
    Proud to be a tax and spend leftist.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by pzycho View Post
    Although in this case it is in reverse order. Regardless of the claim that there was a surplus during the Clinton years, and we must credit both Clinton and the Republican congress for that, it never took into account the unfunded liability projections which BLOW AWAY the current debt (like by 9 times!!!). The trend is clear, entitlement growth since 1950 is sucking budget and the percentage of GDP calculation allocated to federal government spending is steadily increasing.

    IT DOES NOT MATTER IF WE RAISE TAXES TO COVER PART OF OUR GOVERNMENT SPENDING! TAX REVENUES WILL STAY BETWEEN 14% AND 20% AND WE STILL RUN A 40% DEFICIT.

    WE MUST CUT SPENDING AND IT MUST BE MANDATORY SPENDING.
    I agree, cut spending first, then raise taxes if needed....
    Each govt agency gets its money, and the performance of that agency is based on living within the funds allocated.
    If they can so the job with less than was allocated, the employees get a bonus based on a percentage of savings.
    If they can detect fraud and end up saving the govt money, they get a bonus.
    The employees most responsible for saving money are first in line for promotions and/or pay raises.
    There needs to be real incentives to do these things.

    BTW, if GWB had been required to ask congress for higher taxes to fight his war in Iraq, we might have done things differently.
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by pzycho View Post
    The trend is clear, entitlement growth since 1950 is sucking budget and the percentage of GDP calculation allocated to federal government spending is steadily increasing.
    Typcially, budget extremists lump Social Security with Medicare and Medicaid when they rant against entitlements. We have to be clear, SS is funded by its own tax and is not a burden on the budget. Medicare and Medicaid are adversely affected by the folly of treating health care as an economic good. The laws of supply and demand are not applicable to health care and that's what's causing the problem with Medicare and Medicaid. Additionally, Medicaid suffers from the apathy State legislators have for the poor. For the most part, the poor don't vote so legislators don't care all that much what happens to them.
    Proud to be a tax and spend leftist.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    BTW, if GWB had been required to ask congress for higher taxes to fight OUR war in Iraq, we might have done things differently.
    There, I fixed it for you.

    Seems to me we were running $400 billion deficits during the Iraq War and not all of that was due to the war. In fact less than $150 billion a year on both wars. The fact that we had to reconstitute defense and intelligence after Clinton and Gingrich raped them for the "peace dividend" in the 90s is unrelated to the wars, but related to the threat of terror. So much for the "end of conflict between nations".

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    Typcially, budget extremists lump Social Security with Medicare and Medicaid when they rant against entitlements. We have to be clear, SS is funded by its own tax and is not a burden on the budget. Medicare and Medicaid are adversely affected by the folly of treating health care as an economic good. The laws of supply and demand are not applicable to health care and that's what's causing the problem with Medicare and Medicaid. Additionally, Medicaid suffers from the apathy State legislators have for the poor. For the most part, the poor don't vote so legislators don't care all that much what happens to them.
    I hope you are not going to college in St. Louis. We just went through nearly two years where a congress dominated by democrats in both houses and the presidency created "historic" health care legislation. Why do you mention that social security is taxed and should be viewed seperately, but not medicare which is also taxed seperately?

    Also your claim about apathy for medicade because it helps the poor, are you saying that NE legislators which are predominately democrats as well as in Calif care little about the poor?

    In an earlier post you stated that taxes need to be increased. So what percentage of GDP should federal revenues be? It is running about 14-15%, the norm is about 18-19% and federal spending is currently about 24% of GDP.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by pzycho View Post
    Although in this case it is in reverse order. Regardless of the claim that there was a surplus during the Clinton years, and we must credit both Clinton and the Republican congress for that, it never took into account the unfunded liability projections which BLOW AWAY the current debt (like by 9 times!!!). The trend is clear, entitlement growth since 1950 is sucking budget and the percentage of GDP calculation allocated to federal government spending is steadily increasing.

    IT DOES NOT MATTER IF WE RAISE TAXES TO COVER PART OF OUR GOVERNMENT SPENDING! TAX REVENUES WILL STAY BETWEEN 14% AND 20% AND WE STILL RUN A 40% DEFICIT.

    WE MUST CUT SPENDING AND IT MUST BE MANDATORY SPENDING.
    2010 federal revenue @ 14.7% of GDP = $2.16 trillion ($1.29 trillion)

    2010 federal revenue @ 17% of GDP = $2.48 trillion ($0.976 trillion)

    2010 federal revenue @ 20% of GDP = $2.92 trillion ($0.536 trillion)
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    Typcially, budget extremists lump Social Security with Medicare and Medicaid when they rant against entitlements. We have to be clear, SS is funded by its own tax and is not a burden on the budget. Medicare and Medicaid are adversely affected by the folly of treating health care as an economic good. The laws of supply and demand are not applicable to health care and that's what's causing the problem with Medicare and Medicaid. Additionally, Medicaid suffers from the apathy State legislators have for the poor. For the most part, the poor don't vote so legislators don't care all that much what happens to them.
    ****ing idiots tend to separate SS into a separate budget item, as if the growth in cost of SS were covered by a "small" tax increase of FICA and a small adjustment to eligibility. Plus, you are counting all those IOUs from the general fund as continuing to fund SS. It is an accounting trick and the reality is we need to look at total revenue and total spending, AND where the GROWTH in spending is and cut. Don't ever think for a moment that the IOUs from the general fund to SS do not represent the fact that SS costs more than FICA taxes are taking in.

    We need to aggressively cut SS, Medicare and Medicaid.

  10. #130
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by pzycho View Post
    There, I fixed it for you.

    Seems to me we were running $400 billion deficits during the Iraq War and not all of that was due to the war. In fact less than $150 billion a year on both wars. The fact that we had to reconstitute defense and intelligence after Clinton and Gingrich raped them for the "peace dividend" in the 90s is unrelated to the wars, but related to the threat of terror. So much for the "end of conflict between nations".
    Don't be fixing what isn't broke. The War on Terror is OUR war, the war on Iraq was Bush's war. OTOH, God told him to do it, so he doesn't have to take all the blame...
    Oracle of Utah
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