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Thread: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

  1. #91
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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    No, it results from Obama's spending. Bush ran a deficit due to his war spending and the bail outs. Obama is running an astronomically higher deficit due to increased and dangerous spending levels. Obama isn't the only one who ran up a deficit, but he's the primary one doing so.
    Why not take the recession into consideration before making such an argument?

    Tax revenue as a percentage of GDP peaked in 2000, and has since declined from its relative maximum (21%) to around 14.9% in 2010. Due to the extension of the Bush tax cuts, this ratio is projected to fall to 14.5% in 2011 before picking up in 2012.

    Which brings me to automatic stabilizers, e.g. unemployment insurance, food stamps, medicaid etc....

    Research
    from the Federal Reserve Bank:

    This paper provides quantitative estimates of the effects of the automatic stabilizers on
    the government budget and on the economy. We find that at the general government level each
    1 percent increase in the GDP gap increases the deficit by 0.45 percent of GDP with 0.35 percent
    of GDP occurring at the federal level. According to simulations with FRB/US, the automatic
    stabilizers provide a moderate amount of buffering of aggregate demand shocks.
    The stabilizers
    attenuate the effects on aggregate demand by about 10 percent after four quarters and 20 percent
    after eight quarters. Turning to active fiscal policy, the federal government has engaged in
    countercyclical policies following most business cycle peaks. This has been offset to some
    degree by tightening at the state and local level. During 2008-09, the combined effects of federal
    and state and local budgets on aggregate demand (from both discretionary actions and automatic
    stabilizers) may have lifted the level of GDP by 2 percent in 2009.
    If you are looking for something to blame for deficit spending, blame the recession.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    Doesnt the 2009 Budget belong to President Bush?
    Partially

    tenchar
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    yes, so long as you can plug in whatever multiplier you like, gosh, the model always works!


    watch, i can do it to: okay.... now, yesterday, I bought a broom and some other cleaning supplies, costing me about 20 bucks. now..... we'll just go ahead and figure that 20 bucks is going to get spent a few thousand times before it get's destroyed, only to be replaced by another 20, which will itself get spent........ okay, so figuring for a multiplier of 5,000,000.........


    I just saved or created thousands of jobs!!!.


    hey, if you are out there, and you have a job today, you're welcome. because last week I also bought some food - so I'm pretty sure if I hadn't done that, you would have been fired.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes, so long as you can plug in whatever multiplier you like, gosh, the model always works!


    watch, i can do it to: okay.... now, yesterday, I bought a broom and some other cleaning supplies, costing me about 20 bucks. now..... we'll just go ahead and figure that 20 bucks is going to get spent a few thousand times before it get's destroyed, only to be replaced by another 20, which will itself get spent........ okay, so figuring for a multiplier of 5,000,000.........


    I just saved or created thousands of jobs!!!.


    hey, if you are out there, and you have a job today, you're welcome. because last week I also bought some food - so I'm pretty sure if I hadn't done that, you would have been fired.
    Why even bother responding? If you want to rant, by all means go right on ahead. Just don't expect to be taken seriously....

    If there is a multiplier of 3/2, and you spend $20, it would lead to an additional $10 in total output (expenditure approach). In the future, do try and make some sense when you post.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 05-04-11 at 07:31 AM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Why not take the recession into consideration before making such an argument?

    Tax revenue as a percentage of GDP peaked in 2000, and has since declined from its relative maximum (21%) to around 14.9% in 2010. Due to the extension of the Bush tax cuts, this ratio is projected to fall to 14.5% in 2011 before picking up in 2012.

    Which brings me to automatic stabilizers, e.g. unemployment insurance, food stamps, medicaid etc....

    Research
    from the Federal Reserve Bank:



    If you are looking for something to blame for deficit spending, blame the recession.
    Or you could seek the truth. The link will give clarity to your errors, big time.

    Legal Schnauzer: Dissecting the Economic Debacles of the George W. Bush Administration

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Or you could seek the truth. The link will give clarity to your errors, big time.

    Legal Schnauzer: Dissecting the Economic Debacles of the George W. Bush Administration
    Neither you nor the blog you sourced was able to "identify" any errors in my previous post. You are welcome to use actual economic analysis. Sorry to break it to you, but your opinion simply doesn't cut it!
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    How do you justify that? Obama has increased spending exponentially to a point that taxation cannot sustain it.
    That's just not so.

    The Pew Charitable Trust has examined the effect of legislation passed in the last ten years on the the deficit. In 2001, they projected a surplus of $2.3t for 2011. Insetead we have a defict of $10.4t. That shift of $12.7t is caused primarily by the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, 27%, the recession, 28%, the wars, 10%, Medicare Part D, 2%. The Recovery Act was responsible for only 6% of the $12.7t. This is not Obama's fault.

    http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFil...since_2001.pdf
    Proud to be a tax and spend leftist.

    Proud supporter of the real Second Amendment.

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    why do you give a **** what the IMF thinks
    i already told you, fundamental budget reform is imminently needed else the big 3 will fade away

    and the slasher in december took taxes off the table

    Obama signs tax deal into law - CNN

    watch your language

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I think Americans think we spend too much and need to decrease spending and increase taxes.
    fair enough, just tell harry to write it up and move it

    it's been seven hundred and FIVE days since the party in power produced an itemized budget---in times like these

    why?

    when do you expect hurryup harry to hustle one up?

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    Re: Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Quote Originally Posted by pzycho View Post
    Americans Blame Wasteful Government Spending for Deficit

    Well, isn't this interesting. All you ultra-liberals out there that want to raise taxes and hurt the economic recovery, take careful note. This should help make the debt ceiling debate vigorous.

    Sorry, but this is a bit silly. First off, the poll makes zero sense as it poses a binary question asking which item is the bigger contributor rather than seek to partition the blame. Then, you take this binary poll to imply that we take a binary view of the solution: we fix the budget by only cutting expenses or only increasing taxes. Sorry, but most economists and people not running for office would tell you the the cause and solution are a blended problem, not a binary one.

    Americans do generally favor a roll-back on tax reductions for high income individuals (though they are generally not in favor of an across the board increase). This will have to happen, as Americans are also not in favor of sweeping changes to social programs called for by the Republican budget.

    From a Washington Post / ABC poll (Washington Post-ABC News Poll (washingtonpost.com))

    17. In order to reduce the national debt, would you support or oppose [ITEM]? Do you feel that way STRONGLY or SOMEWHAT?
    4/17/11 – Summary Table

    ------ Support ------ ------- Oppose ----- No
    NET Strngly Smwht NET Smwht Strngly

    a. Cutting spending on Medicaid,
    which is the government health
    insurance program for the poor 30 14 16 69 17 52

    b. Cutting spending on Medicare,
    which is the government health
    insurance program for the elderly 21 8 13 78 13 65

    c. Cutting military spending 42 22 20 56 15 41

    d. Raising taxes on Americans
    with incomes over 250-thousand
    dollars a year 72 54 18 27 10 17


    That all said, the idea of not raising the debt ceiling is complete silliness (except the consequences of mis-playing with this bomb could be grave). In ALL budget scenarios proposed, including that of the Republicans, the deficit will increase for the forseeable future. Even to implement the Ryan budget with zero changes you must increase the debt ceiling.
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    Last edited by upsideguy; 05-04-11 at 11:45 AM.

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