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Osama Bin Laden is dead

I don't think disrespecting weapons is good habit. I've heard too many stories of *bang* "oops, I was just playing".

Always treat them as if they are loaded. Only point them at others in a training environment, or to kill.

:shrug:


I've no problem taking children to the range (where they can learn to respect a weapon), but children running around foolishly and unguided with "play guns" disturbs my sense of responsibility regarding both the weapon and the training.
 
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ecofarm said:
I don't think disrespecting weapons is good habit. I've heard too many stories of *bang* "oops, I was just playing".

Always treat them as if they are loaded. Only point them at others in a training environment, or to kill.

:shrug:
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How about a water pistol? can they have that?

j-mac
 
How about a water pistol? can they have that?
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They can have all kinds of guns, as long as they maintain the proper respect and discipline required for such "toys". I don't think guns should be merely "played with", toy or otherwise.
 
ecofarm said:
They can have all kinds of guns, as long as they maintain the proper respect and discipline required for such "toys". I don't think guns should be merely "played with", toy or otherwise.
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Ok, please elaborate. With a water gun what is the "proper respect and discipline?"


j-mac
 
ecofarm said:
Whoa! You were deprived as a child!

This is like asking "what are legos". Or "what are stars wars action figures".
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Except these things are recognised around the world and clearly Nerf guns aren't.
 
j-mac said:
Ok, please elaborate. With a water gun what is the "proper respect and discipline?"


j-mac
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I've already been very clear:

1. Treat it as a loaded weapon.
2. Training environment.

The kid can point it at other people/object and shoot, etc as long as it is a structured, training environment.

I simply don't believe that giving kids "fake guns" and letting them run recklessly promotes good habits later in life.
 
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ecofarm said:
I've already been very clear:

1. Treat it as a loaded weapon.
2. Training environment.

The kid can point it at other people/object and shoot, etc as long as it is a structured, training environment.

I simply don't believe that giving kids "fake guns" and letting them run recklessly promotes good habits later in life.
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There was me hoping kids where intelligent enough these day's to be able to distinguish between the two. Toy gun's where my life, i'm 18 turning 19 and i haven't shot anybody yet. :D
 
Simon W. Moon said:
He does note that EIT increase the volume of reports coming out of a detainee, but that the quality is a separate matter from the quantity.
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The Prof said:
"certain of the techniques," helgerson said in an interview, "seemed to have little effect, whereas waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information, but we didn't have the time or resources to do a careful, systematic analysis of the use of particular techniques with particular individuals and independently confirm the quality of the information that came out"
nonsense, not a word goes that way, at least not in wapo's account
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The Prof said:
no mention of length of stay, not in the ig's report made public by doj in august, 09
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I think I was looking at an earlier report that was from 2003 or 2004. Idk when it was released. I found the report from a link in the article you linked to.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/Khalid_Shayhk_Muhammad.pdf
 
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kaya'08 said:
There was me hoping kids where intelligent enough these day's to be able to distinguish between the two. Toy gun's where my life, i'm 18 turning 19 and i haven't shot anybody yet. :D
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It's not a matter of being intelligent. Plenty of smart people do stupid crap due to bad habits. Beyond the bad habits is a basic disrepect for serious things, which is instilled via the "we can practice one thing and do another" attitude.

I take guns seriously. What else can I say?
 
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ecofarm said:
It's not a matter of being intelligent. Plenty of smart people do stupid crap due to bad habits.
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I have never seen evidence that toy guns promote bad habits it's why i can't agree with you on that one i'm afraid.
 
Bad training promotes bad habits. You disagree? My only evidence is logic.

Let's just hope that those bad habits and lack of discipline are never realized during the possession of an actual weapon.
 
The Prof said:
he's hardly going out of his way in any assertion, either way
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In the report I read, it's pointed out several times that the efficacy of the EIT could not be judged. Whether that constitutes "going out of his way" is certainly debatable. But it's mentioned multiple times in multiple sections.


I would guess that the IG would support Zyphilin's position he expressed earlier in the thread. I mean if Zyph were to ask him as you suggested.
 
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ecofarm said:
Bad training promotes bad habits. You disagree? My only evidence is logic.

Let's just hope that those bad habits and lack of discipline are never realized during the possession of an actual weapon.
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I agree with the moral of what your saying, i just don't agree that a toy gun promotes any sort of bad habit. I can't talk for every individual on this planet naturally but i think by far and large most mature people wouldn't treat a real gun like a toy gun, or at least if they did it wouldn't change much if they had never come in contact with a toy gun.
 
kaya'08 said:
I have never seen evidence that toy guns promote bad habits it's why i can't agree with you on that one i'm afraid.
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My 83-year-old mom will never forget the day she almost shot her brother. Mom was, prolly, 50 years old. Her brother a few years older. She was back home visiting them in the Kentucky hills. She lives in Chicago. There was a toy gun sitting on the table. She picked it up, cocked it and pointed it at my uncle and said, "Don't get smart with me, older brother!" My uncle quietly said, "Rosey, that's a real gun. Just put it right down now." OMFG!! Mom thought it was a toy.

I hear that story and think, "How could you mistake a real gun for a toy? The weight alone...." But, that's what happened. Probably a really good reason to teach kids all about guns when they're young if you're a family who has guns in the house.

Sorry for diverting...just brought back a memory.
 
The Prof said:
no mention of length of stay, not in the ig's report made public by doj in august, 09
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from : http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/Khalid_Shayhk_Muhammad.pdf
223. Prior to the use of EITs, Abu Zubaydah provided information for [] intelligence reports. Interrogators applied the waterboard to Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times during August 2002. During the period between the end of the use of the waterboard and 30 April 2003, he provided information for approximately [] additional reports. It is not possible to say definitively that the wateboard is the reason for Abu Zubaydah's increased production, or if another factor, such as the length of detention, was the catalyst.​
 
mac said:
That would be inhaling... swallowing goes to the stomach...
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And that's what they do. remember, they're trying to breath.


Not when you also deny it. Waterboarding is not torture, except to little girly-men that go to stylists instead of barbers.
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Not sure what you mean by deny it, but you're factually incorrect concerning waterboarding. It is and always ahs been torture. If it were as easy as you THINK it woud not do anything. It woudl not even get the confessions it is so successful at getting regardless of actual guilt. however, regardless, we have history that shows we, the US, have considered it torture in the past. And rightly so.
 
MaggieD said:
My 83-year-old mom will never forget the day she almost shot her brother. Mom was, prolly, 50 years old. Her brother a few years older. She was back home visiting them in the Kentucky hills. She lives in Chicago. There was a toy gun sitting on the table. She picked it up, cocked it and pointed it at my uncle and said, "Don't get smart with me, older brother!" My uncle quietly said, "Rosey, that's a real gun. Just put it right down now." OMFG!! Mom thought it was a toy.

I hear that story and think, "How could you mistake a real gun for a toy? The weight alone...." But, that's what happened. Probably a really good reason to teach kids all about guns when they're young if you're a family who has guns in the house.

Sorry for diverting...just brought back a memory.
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Oh no >.<
Was the safety on?
 
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