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Osama Bin Laden is dead

In my military history class a few years ago, my professor invited a CIA case officer (also a former Marine and former student of the same class) to give a guest lecture to the class. He said it was NEVER okay to torture, and that the "ticking time-bomb scenario" (which is a one-in-a million chance contrived scenario in the first place) and for which many envision torture to be useful could be avoided if one had done their homework the right way up until that point.

To me, torture represents doing things the convenient and easy way, rather than doing things the right way. It is un-American and goes against our values. The ticking time-bomb scenario is the ONLY scenario for which I would even consider saying that torture is justified. And who's to say that the same intelligence couldn't have been obtained without torture, with a little more time and patience?

I agree, I disagree that waterbaording and sleep deprivation can honestly be catagorized as torture.
 
i had no idea. what have i missed on this story? my daughter got married sunday, so i haven't had time to breathe. did obama have terrorists waterboarded? btw, you're quite rude.

libgrandlady soon?
 
I agree, I disagree that waterbaording and sleep deprivation can honestly be catagorized as torture.

Waterboarding is definitely torture. I think sleep deprivation is harder to categorize. It may be inhumane, but I don't think it can honestly be categorized as torture. There are many psychological methods and tactics of interrogation that are effective, that don't involve the use of physical torture, that I approve of.
 
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Waterboarding is definitely torture. I think sleep deprivation is harder to categorize. It may be inhumane, but I don't think it can honestly be categorized as torture. There are many psychological methods and tactics of interrogation that are effective, that don't involve the use of physical torture, that I approve of.

Waterbaording is a training technique, how can it be torture?
 
Maybe he shouldn't have used his real address on the PlayStation Network?
 
Not that I agree with gekaap, but where exactly are you getting that Obama increased the number of troops in Iraq?

I was thinking the troop surge in Iraq was under Obama. It was under Bush. Oopsy.
 
Waterbaording is a training technique, how can it be torture?

What do you mean by training technique? I know some specops guys are subjected to methods that are considered torture in the course of their training, like in SERE. Doesn't mean the practice isn't torture

Waterboarding | Define Waterboarding at Dictionary.com

waterboarding (ˈwɔːtəˌbɔːdɪŋ)

— n
a form of torture in which the victim is immobilized and has water poured on his or her face, producing a severe gag reflex, to simulate drowning

You're made to feel like you are drowning. If not performed properly, waterboarding can actually result in permanent physical damage and even death. It most definitely is a form of torture.
 
Oh please....if Bush/Cheney use of torture had been effective at all, Bin Laden would have been captured years ago.

And that is your opinion. Fine. But, to that I would argue: not necessarily. Remember, OBL and AQ senior leaders long ago became quite adept at keeping their locations known only to those with an immediate need to know, which we came to find out, meant primarily only those couriers used to communicate with AQ. Note in the details that have become available, the importance of the identity of OBL's "favorite" courier and how long it took to first identify him, then track him to his lair - it took years.

The cellular structure employed by AQ and most terrorist organizations is quite effective at preventing the capture and interrogation of one person from revealing the identity and location of other cells - because they don't know it. Hence, the importance of knowledge of their communications methods and using that knowledge to trace and identify other cells.
 
There is really know way to know if the operation actually killed bin Laden. The body wasn't provided for independent examination, and the US government is not a credible institution, having established a long-standing reputation of manufacturing "truths" to fit its agenda.

Furthermore, there have been several past reports about bin Laden having already been dead.

In any case, this supposed "death" is a good thing. One less reason for the war-mongering righties to call for more trillion dollar deficit spending in glitzy but impractical military hardware.
 
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I agree, I disagree that waterbaording and sleep deprivation can honestly be catagorized as torture.

Get yourself waterboarded and get back to us. Go for 60 hours without sleep and get back to us.
 
Waterbaording is a training technique, how can it be torture?

So is forced marching but it usually stops when people have had enough. The power of torture is that the victims never know when it will end.
 
Appeal to emotion.

Yawn

I'm sleepy.
 
So is forced marching but it usually stops when people have had enough. The power of torture is that the victims never know when it will end.


Considering the enemy we face, I am interested in what your approach to gain information from these prisoners would be?

j-mac
 
Considering the enemy we face, I am interested in what your approach to gain information from these prisoners would be?

j-mac

Torture is used by the lazy and the slow witted, and the sadists. Can it get useful information? Yes. Equally useful information can be gained by traditional, non violent, non painful methods, used by dedicated professionals, and many professional interrogators would say it's even more reliable information. I'd rather our country's interrogators be viewed the latter not the former.
 
Torture is used by the lazy and the slow witted, and the sadists. Can it get useful information? Yes. Equally useful information can be gained by traditional, non violent, non painful methods, used by dedicated professionals, and many professional interrogators would say it's even more reliable information. I'd rather our country's interrogators be viewed the latter not the former.


Ok, so you would rather we merely asked with a pretty please at the end, and what when they say go screw yourself?

j-mac
 
During the press briefing earlier the following took place..kind of made me giggle (note: not verbatim, but close):

Reporter: So if Osama didn't have a gun, how did he resist?
Carney: ...you don't have to have a weapon to resist...
 
Torture is used by the lazy and the slow witted, and the sadists.

and, since torture was instituted in the US by the Republicans, it logically extends that the Republicans are .........
 
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Tink, tink, tink*** TI you still there, waiting for your response.


j-mac
 
During the press briefing earlier the following took place..kind of made me giggle (note: not verbatim, but close):

Reporter: So if Osama didn't have a gun, how did he resist?
Carney: ...you don't have to have a weapon to resist...

I lol'd

12345
 
During the press briefing earlier the following took place..kind of made me giggle (note: not verbatim, but close):

Reporter: So if Osama didn't have a gun, how did he resist?
Carney: ...you don't have to have a weapon to resist...


His wifeshield was his weapon. :prof
 
What do you mean by training technique? I know some specops guys are subjected to methods that are considered torture in the course of their training, like in SERE. Doesn't mean the practice isn't torture

Waterboarding | Define Waterboarding at Dictionary.com



You're made to feel like you are drowning. If not performed properly, waterboarding can actually result in permanent physical damage and even death. It most definitely is a form of torture.

I've been waterbaorded...as has nearly everyone that's been through S.E.R.E.
 
I've been waterbaorded...as has nearly everyone that's been through S.E.R.E.

You just repeated what I said, mac. All I'm saying is that just because you went through it, doesn't make it not torture. There's a pretty strong consensus that it is most definitely a form of torture.
 
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