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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

  1. #951
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    wait, wait, wait.....isn't the overall claim being presented here that Obama is solely responsible to the exclusion of GWB? If the director of the CIA just said that waterboarding had an impact in finding and killing UBL, and that it's still going on, and that it is useful in interrogations....how then can you assert that it stopped in 2006 and that GWB had nothing to do with finding UBL?
    Not my claim. I don't credit either president. I suggest it was the good work of professionals doing their job.

    And listen or read what he actually said. Not the comment on what he said. The link provided has the protions written.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #952
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    For those that have claimed they were water boarded, perhaps they weren't aware that it was different?


    The Secret Justice Department Memo

    Looking at the previously secret August 1, 2002 Justice Department Memo issued only a month before the briefing, you can see it deals with whether waterboarding Abu Zubaydah would amount to torture. The memo was signed by Jay Bybee, the head of the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC), but apparently written by Berkeley law professor John Yoo. The memo says that it is based on the facts that the CIA's acting general counsel John Rizzo gave them.

    The 18-page memo stresses three facts:

    Thousands of US Troops (Navy Seals, Special Operations Forces) have gone through Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape Training (SERE), which includes waterboarding
    Hardly any reports had been received of the trainees suffering subsequent ill effects
    Waterboarding is essentially painless and lasts only "20 to 40 seconds"
    The memo leaves out the following facts:

    The SERE program permitted a trainee to be waterboarded only once or twice. (As stated above, the CIA waterboarded Zubaydah 83 times)
    The SERE program was based on interrogation techniques used by North Korea and Communist China during the Korean War
    The CIA used a harsher waterboarding method than did SERE, applying, according to the CIA Inspector General, "large volumes of water to a cloth that covered the detainee's mouth and nose" rather than the "small amount of water [applied] to the cloth in a controlled manner" for SERE trainees
    More important than anything else, the American SERE trainees had volunteered and had to know that they were not going to be killed or seriously harmed. Individuals who are imprisoned have good reason to believe that the detaining authority (the CIA) might kill them, particularly after, among other things: Being hooded, placed in the equivalent of dog crates, repeatedly slammed against "flexible" walls, deprived of sleep while shackled in uncomfortable positions for up to a week at a time, and placed on a liquid diet
    Print Page
    This information is inaccurate. I got it 6 times....and that's just the beginning of where it's inaccurate.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  3. #953
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not my claim. I don't credit either president. I suggest it was the good work of professionals doing their job.

    And listen or read what he actually said. Not the comment on what he said. The link provided has the protions written.
    Hmm, ok....then you recognize that waterboarding can be a legitimate interrogation technique?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    667. Bin Laden's death is another trick (5/2/2011)

    When people chanting for the news of Bin Laden's death, I have a sad feeling how ignorant people are cheated by this government. I also worry we may face a big "terror attack" planned by this government.

    1. Since 911, I don't believe this government anymore. It is hijacked by a group of insiders. If they can cheat people with 911 such a big attack, what else can't they do? For those who insist to tarnish 911 truthers, one thing they can't deny is the "WMD" lie which justified war on Iraq. That's a big lie because it caused large civilian's casualty. Yet, that lie was neglected. The lier was awarded a second term of President because the inside group wants another war - Iran war. Bin Laden's death is only another soap opera - same like the death of Al Zarqawi. (so said Iraq Al Qaida)

    2. There is a strategy purpose of Bin Laden's death - to justify a coming dirty bomb attack. The intelligence always arrange "provocative actions" to make the false flag terror attack reasonable. That was what we saw a month ago the "Quran burning" in Florida and the "veil ban" law passed in French. "Bin Laden's death" is a big one they push out today which indicates a big terror attack is going to happen recently.

    3.It's a continuation of a series "nuclear crisis (bombing)" attempt since later last year. (see my posts from #651) You may verify it from rare report news. (not from US media)

    GORDON DUFF: NYC DIRTY BOMB “DRILL” – LARGEST IN NATIONAL HISTORY…IS IT A DRILL?
    April 6, 2011 posted by Gordon Duff

    CENSORED TERROR “DRILL” MOST COSTLY IN HISTORY
    “More checkpoints per square mile than Baghdad”
    By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor

    Busloads of police were brought into New York, some from distant communities. The national press, generously called the “mainstream media” reported none of this today. There was a defacto news blackout about the scale and nature of what is happening in New York City today.
    ............

    The story in New York is that the city is testing its capability of detecting a “dirty bomb” or other “radiological device.” At a time when most municipalities are flat broke, busted, New York is spending an unprecedented amount, in what is said to be a drill. The city is hunting four “imaginary terror groups.”

    GORDON DUFF: NYC DIRTY BOMB “DRILL” – LARGEST IN NATIONAL HISTORY…IS IT A DRILL? : Veterans Today
    US tornadoes force shutdown of two nuclear reactors in Virginia

    Ewen MacAskill in Washington
    guardian.co.uk, Monday 18 April 2011

    A US nuclear power company has disclosed that one of the tornadoes that hit the US at the weekend, killing at least 45 people and causing widespread damage, forced the shutdown of two of its reactors.

    The series of tornadoes that began in Oklahoma late last week barrelled across the country, with North Carolina, where 22 people died, the worst-hit state.

    US tornadoes force shutdown of two nuclear reactors in Virginia | World news | The Guardian
    Nine days later, on 4/27 there was an unprecedentary tornado storms attacked East side of America. Scientists suggested "some of the tonadoes may have been among the largest and most powerful ever recorded. " "2011 Tornado Outbreak Death Toll Hits 337, Second-Deadliest Day From Twister In U.S. History".

    On 3/11, Japan suffered an earthquake biggerst ever in its history. On 4/27, US suffered a largest and most powerful ever recorded tonado storms. When both failed to produce a nuclear pollution crisis in US, the Feds activates Bin Laden. Beware of a coming "nuclear bomb attack". (Or dirty bomb attack)

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Here:

    BRIAN WILLIAMS: I'd like to ask you about the sourcing on the intel that ultimately led to this successful attack. Can you confirm that it was as a result of waterboarding that we learned what we needed to learn to go after bin Laden?

    LEON PANETTA: You know Brian, in the intelligence business you work from a lot of sources of information, and that was true here. We had a multiple source -- a multiple series of sources -- that provided information with regards to this situation. Clearly, some of it came from detainees and the interrogation of detainees. But we also had information from other sources as well. So, it's a little difficult to say it was due just to one source of information that we got
    .

    He does not say here we got information from torture or waterboarding. He says interrogation. Thsi could mean conventional interrogation. he does not specify.

    WILLIAMS: Turned around the other way, are you denying that waterboarding was in part among the tactics used to extract the intelligence that led to this successful mission?

    PANETTA: No, I think some of the detainees clearly were, you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I'm also saying that, you know, the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question.
    Again, we know they were waterboarded. What we don't know, and he doesn't say one way or another is if we got the information from the waterboarding. If we follow the timeline provided with other sources, we know waterboarding stopped in 2006 and we got the information in 2007, so it is unlikely we got the information from waterboarding.

    WILLIAMS: So, finer point, one final time, enhanced interrogation techniques -- which has always been kind of a handy euphemism in these post-9/11 years -- that includes waterboarding?

    PANETTA: That's correct.

    This says nothing on the issue.

    linked earlier:

    RealClearPolitics - Video - Panetta: "Open Question" If Waterboarding Helped Find Bin Laden

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #956
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Hmm, ok....then you recognize that waterboarding can be a legitimate interrogation technique?
    No, I don't. It's torture and torture is and always has been illegal. Nor do I think we got anythign related to this from waterboarding.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #957
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Here:

    .

    He does not say here we got information from torture or waterboarding. He says interrogation. Thsi could mean conventional interrogation. he does not specify.



    Again, we know they were waterboarded. What we don't know, and he doesn't say one way or another is if we got the information from the waterboarding. If we follow the timeline provided with other sources, we know waterboarding stopped in 2006 and we got the information in 2007, so it is unlikely we got the information from waterboarding.




    This says nothing on the issue.

    linked earlier:

    RealClearPolitics - Video - Panetta: "Open Question" If Waterboarding Helped Find Bin Laden
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I don't. It's torture and torture is and always has been illegal. Nor do I think we got anythign related to this from waterboarding.
    but he clearly indicates that it was entirely possible that it was a result of EIT and that is is ongoing. How do you reconcile that?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    it is true (according to the cia ig's report issued by the doj) that ksm provided the nom de guerre of the courier NOT under waterboarding but instead in the months after his "transformation from an avowed and truculent enemy of the us into the cia's preeminent source on al qaeda"

    "the evidence is clear: ksm cooperated, and to an extradordinary extent, only after his spirit was broken in the month after his capture" when he was waterboarded 183 times, among other unpleasant eit's

    ksm provided the code name, al libi clued us in to the significance of the tip (ie, that following the fella would lead to ubl)

    read the sources, linked above

    thank you, president obama, for leaving in place the anti terror approaches put in place by your predecessor which led to the assassination of america's greatest enemy

    a job well done, all around

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    but he clearly indicates that it was entirely possible that it was a result of EIT and that is is ongoing. How do you reconcile that?
    He is careful to not indicate much of anything. And nowhere does he suggest it is on going. In fact, the courts ahve ruled it can't be ongoing. This stuff was stopped in 2006. If we find it is ongoing, arrests should be made. Instead it is more likely conventional interrorgation techniques had more effect, as linked earlier.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #960
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    This information is inaccurate. I got it 6 times....and that's just the beginning of where it's inaccurate.

    Well, I guess without any links to prove that you got it 6 times, we will never know, will we? And it is a memo from the Justice Department, unless we have a link showing otherwise, from a reputable source, it can't be refuted.

    But, it seems highly unlikely that CIA officers would be this wimpy.


    It was reported that “CIA officers who subjected themselves to the waterboarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in.”[8] According to the CIA, three prisoners in American custody have been “waterboarded.”[9]

    Waterboarding is Illegal - Washington University Law Review



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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