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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

  1. #671
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    I'm glad bin Laden is dead, but in rejoicing, lets make sure that the people that deserve the credit get it. I hate Obama, yes, can't stand the man...
    Well, atleast we now know how you really feel.

    ...but he did good with saying "yea go get 'em." However, I am disappointed that he wanted to take bin Laden alive. I am sorely disappointed in hearing that.
    Why? I mean, if he were captured alive he'd be made to stand trial for his crimes. Frankly, that's one man I wouldn't have minded if he rotted in Gitmo for the rest of his life!

    Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't have blamed him if things had gone wrong. Like I said before, I didn't blame him when he went after Libya and killed civilians in bombings.

    Some might say "some people will never give Obama credit for this" and I am one of them, but I am equal, I will never give Bush credit for Saddam. Like that cartoon said, all he did was say "ok, go get him." That doesn't take much. The entire intelligence community, the CIA, the FBI, and all other 3 letter abbreviations that got involved and got this man should be commended. I mean, what if Osama had been shot on Jan 21st, 2009? Who would you have given credit to then?

    So on the same token, don't let your LOVE of Obama blind yourself to who really got bin Laden. You tell me don't let my hate for him blind me, well, don't let your love for him blind you. See how that coin flips both ways?[/QUOTE]

    Yours is a twisted brand of logic.

    Look, I give credit where credit is due. If folks honestly believe that getting the name of the courier would never have happened and, as such, we'd never have caught OBL, well...all I can say is you're entitled to your opinion. I don't think the name was that crucial in this case, but it turned out to be a good lead. So, I'll give credit that the intel was a solid lead even though I don't care for the method inwhich the information was gathered.

    Being a Navy veteran, I will say I am VERY PROUD of my fellow Special Ops shipmates for pulling off a well executed mission. SEAL-TEAM 6 ROCKS!!! WHOOHOO!!! To that, I also give props to the FBI, CIA, the U.S. Navy and the men and women onboard the USS CARL VINCENT, as well as anyone else within the DoD who had a hand in OBL's capture and death. WELL DONE TO YOU ALL!!!

    But you have to give much credit to the President for being foresighted enough and for being persuasive enough to do what his two predecessors could not - pull all facets of our counterintelligents teams and special forces together in absolute secret and make them understand that getting OBL was far more important than any of their petty "territorial rivalries" which kept us from getting OBL long ago. Moreover, Pres. Obama didn't seem to be all that concerned for collateral damage which is more than I can say for either Clinton or GWB who were hamstrung by killing innocent civilians throughout their presidencies to get this scumbag!

    So, yes! I give tons of credit to our President and Commander-in-Chief for making the call where others did not!

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I was referring to when he left that area heading towards Pakistan. It's my believe he's been there ever since.
    What you believe is to be true might be at great variance from the facts. Perhaps in a few years we'll know more facts about what actually happened.


    Maybe he (GWB) did know something the rest of us didn't concerning OBL while he was in Tora Bora, maybe he didn't. But I say when you have the nation's #1 enemy within your grasps you DON'T let him get away!!
    You don't actually know that he was in anyone's grasp. You still seem to be running with your beliefs.


    On the issue of the intel gathered from KSM from him being waterboarded...okay...I'll conceed we got lucky on that note. KSM cracked and provided a solid piece of information we could use - the "name" of the courier OBL was using. But I think we could have followed the courier and got OBL even if we didn't know the courier's name.
    You really needn't concede anything. If the rights of terrorists are more important than the possibility of saving innocent lives then you can stick to that belief. If I am in command I'd use every means at my disposal in order to save the lives of innocents. Booth beliefs are common enough and there is room for both.

    Knowing such certainly made the job easier, no doubt! But we've know OBL has used couriers to get information in and out of his protected area since the Russian/Afghan war. For folks to be acting as if getting the name of the courier just because KSM was waterboarded is some big revelation, so big in fact that the Special-Ops mission couldn't have taken place without the info, is kinda foolhearty to me
    .

    Those blessed with 20/20 hindsight are often silent during times of crisis.

    It made tracking this guy (courier) alot easier, but I think we could have found OBL without knowing the courier's name. Might have taken longer, but I'm convinced we've have found him because that's kinda what we'd been doing almost from the start - first following OBL's drive* , then his AL Jazeera video couriers.
    Yes. it might have taken longer and more innocent people might have died. Are you for taking action when he is within NATO's grasp or are you for taking a bit longer?

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Was it?

    Here, in part, is what Rumsfeld said.

    “First of all, no one was waterboarded at Guantanamo Bay. That’s a myth that’s been perpetrated around the country by critics".

    But that is not saying that waterboarding did not take place. We do know that at least three terrorists were waterboarded and one of them, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, was the one who gave the information about the couriers.

    Rumsfeld is being either evasive or disingenuous.

  4. #674
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Rumsfeld is being either evasive or disingenuous.
    But in either case, you won't have to change your mind.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    But in either case, you won't have to change your mind.

    Could you clarify that, Simon W. Moon?

    Change my mind to what? What is your understanding of the facts?

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I've been waterbaorded...as has nearly everyone that's been through S.E.R.E.
    Right, and it's not just US troops that go through this type of training. Al Qaeda operatives do it, too, along w/many other terrorists, for obvious reasons.

    And contrary to the propoganda of the warmongering right, waterboarding, along w/all other kinds of physical torture, do not work. When a normal person is tortured, he/she will say anything to stop the torture, true or otherwise, and even if the that person has been trained to resist torture, typically, there's no incentive for him/her to tell the truth if there's no conceivable way for the interrogator to ascertain the veracity of the information he/she reveals.

    The story about the CIA obtaining valuable information from waterboarding detainees is just more mindless claptrap from the gummint. If the US gummint did obtain valuable intelligence from the detainees using this technique, then bin Laden would've been captured years ago, during the dumbya administration, almost immediately after waterboarding began, because those waterboarded detainees would've provided the information necessary to bring about his capture.

    But that did not happen.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The story about the CIA obtaining valuable information from waterboarding detainees is just more mindless claptrap from the gummint.
    But your inside sources tell you different, huh?

    Or are you just sharing your beliefs?

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    And contrary to the propoganda of the warmongering right, waterboarding, along w/all other kinds of physical torture, do not work.
    From what I have seen, it's not that it "doesn't work" so much as it's not as reliable or as useful as other methods.

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The story about the CIA obtaining valuable information from waterboarding detainees is just more mindless claptrap from the gummint. If the US gummint did obtain valuable intelligence from the detainees using this technique, then bin Laden would've been captured years ago, during the dumbya administration, almost immediately after waterboarding began, because those waterboarded detainees would've provided the information necessary to bring about his capture.
    But that did not happen.
    To me, it's not about whether we got info from these sorts of techniques, but whether or not those are the best choice.

    I can get beer from a bottle using a hammer. It works. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea to get beer from a bottle with a hammer.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    That's bull****. There is no timeline between receiving intelligence via torture and when we are able to use it to find the person we are after. If torture got the information after years and it was good info, then torture worked. To say that it didn't work fast enough so it didn't really work is one of the biggest piles of horse**** I've seen on this forum in a long time.

    In fact if anything it means the torture wasn't harsh enough because this person held back info for a long time.
    Last edited by dontworrybehappy; 05-03-11 at 07:59 PM.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    rumsfeld is right

    according to the cia's ig report issued by doj on the monday preceding august 29, 2009, ksm was waterboarded not at gitmo but in "a secret cia prison in eastern europe"

    and when he gave us the name of the courier who led us to the target, presumably around the time the 9-11 mastermind was conducting his "terrorist tutorials," ksm was, as rummy recounts, questioned using "normal interrogation approaches"

    but this, according to the cia via doj, occurred only AFTER "his spirit was broken in the month after his capture"

    before that, he was "an avowed and truculent enemy of the united states," when he "provided only a few intelligence reports," most of which were "outdated, inaccurate or incomplete"

    he was truculent, he was eit'd, he came over, he became our "preeminent source"

    it was actually al libi, also eit'd, who clued us in to one of the nom de guerre's proffered by ksm being the person who delivered to him, al libi, the message that he was to succeed ksm as operative head

    and that missive, it was pretty clear, could only come from the target

    "only bin laden would have given al libi that promotion, cia officials believed"

    How a Detainee Became An Asset - washingtonpost.com

    Phone Call by Kuwaiti Courier Led to Bin Laden - ABC News
    Last edited by The Prof; 05-03-11 at 08:21 PM.

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