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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

  1. #661
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I think if you rode it long enough...a roller coaster could be classed as torture. Or maybe, hanging with your mother-in-law. If done for long enough, anything is torture. Water boarding ain't torture. Electrodes on testicles...torture..., toothpics under fingernails...torture, getting your head sawed off on the internet.......really?

    Reading Amazed's posts......you get the point.
    Well, yes reading Amazed's posts kills my brain.

    That being said, how is waterboarding different from testicles and fingernails?

    This is the dictionary definition for torture:

    Torture | Define Torture at Dictionary.com

    the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
    I think that's a pretty fair definition, and in my opinion waterboarding can reasonably be included. If you think any different, why?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #662
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Not if what MaggieD said is true. She said it was a tipster and if true? I agree with mega on this that they should get that money and they should also get some sort of protection as no telling what could happen to them?

    It was not a tipster - it was our technology and their ignorance that exposed him.

    Osama's bodyguard's Satphone calls led us to hiding place



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  3. #663
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by gekaap View Post
    I guess that's your clever way of saying that Obama doesn't deserve any actual credit.

    Which is pretty foolish since most Republican leaders have given Obama kudos for doing a great job.

    Of course Obama deserves the credit for it, without his go-ahead (and he was taking a big risk if the operation had failed) it would have never been done. There will always be sour grapes - who will not give Obama credit for anything! I guess they don't mind appearing foolish on this one.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  4. #664
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    I don't give Bush credit for capturing Saddam, nor Obama credit for killing Bin Laden. Obama was briefed on intelligence gathered by people who put their lives in grave danger. You can brief a potplant, but that doesn't make the potplant the one who should get the credit. Obama didn't plan, coordinate or execute any part of that mission. He simply had the authority to make it happen. That doesn't make it his puppy.

    Had it gone terribly wrong, I wouldn't be blaming him, just like I don't blame him when civilians are killed in bombings in Libya, Afghanistan or Iraq. In fact, I'm one of the only posters on this forum that completely supports his efforts in Libya and wishes he would step up the bombing. The only reason I would blame Clinton for the Blackhawk down incident is because he was directly involved in not sending in enough people to get the job done. Obama had nothing to do with that aspect of it. Obama made a gutsy move to use the seals, which was fine. But the outcome of the mission is out of his hands, thus the credit should be as well. I mean he made a good choice, but put credit where credit is due. He was sitting in a room watching it on a TV, and HE gets the credit? WTF? At most I would give him a very small amount of credit for his choice to use the seals. But bombing the entire complex would have killed bin Laden as well. So that choice really was like, whatever. We got good intelligence from it, so that was a good choice. Kudos for his choice.

    If the president actively tries to go against the recommendations of the men with the boots on the ground and it goes FUBAR, then it's HIS puppy. But if all he says is yea go do that, or go do whatever you think is necessary to accomplish the mission, how in the hell can you blame the president if it goes wrong OR give him credit if it goes right? He's not a war planner. Certainly not a Navy seal. Hell, Obama never served in the military.

    So don't use strawmen to argue against me. I will call you on it every time.
    Obama had to make the final decision as to whether to go with it or not. Like it or not, it was on his shoulders. If the operation had failed, he would have received the blame just as well.

    So, it doesn't matter whether or not you give Obama the credit - I don't imagine your opinion counts for much. The rest of the world and many Republicans including Cheney, Giuliani, Palin, and Bush (among others) have given Obama kudos for a job well done. Most of us Americans have been waiting for this day, when this devil would be made to pay for his evilness. Sorry that you can't rejoice in it because of your hatred for Obama. We don't really care - we are glad and we thank Obama for not letting us down.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  5. #665
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Obama had to make the final decision as to whether to go with it or not. Like it or not, it was on his shoulders. If the operation had failed, he would have received the blame just as well.

    So, it doesn't matter whether or not you give Obama the credit - I don't imagine your opinion counts for much. The rest of the world and many Republicans including Cheney, Giuliani, Palin, and Bush (among others) have given Obama kudos for a job well done. Most of us Americans have been waiting for this day, when this devil would be made to pay for his evilness. Sorry that you can't rejoice in it because of your hatred for Obama. We don't really care - we are glad and we thank Obama for not letting us down.
    I'm glad bin Laden is dead, but in rejoicing, lets make sure that the people that deserve the credit get it. I hate Obama, yes, can't stand the man, but he did good with saying "yea go get 'em." However, I am disappointed that he wanted to take bin Laden alive. I am sorely disappointed in hearing that.

    Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't have blamed him if things had gone wrong. Like I said before, I didn't blame him when he went after Libya and killed civilians in bombings.

    Some might say "some people will never give Obama credit for this" and I am one of them, but I am equal, I will never give Bush credit for Saddam. Like that cartoon said, all he did was say "ok, go get him." That doesn't take much. The entire intelligence community, the CIA, the FBI, and all other 3 letter abbreviations that got involved and got this man should be commended. I mean, what if Osama had been shot on Jan 21st, 2009? Who would you have given credit to then?

    So on the same token, don't let your LOVE of Obama blind yourself to who really got bin Laden. You tell me don't let my hate for him blind me, well, don't let your love for him blind you. See how that coin flips both ways?

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    I don't imagine your opinion counts for much.
    Don't worry, your doesn't either!
    Last edited by dontworrybehappy; 05-03-11 at 06:28 PM.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by gekaap View Post
    No, because the intel that was finally provided was obtained using traditional interrogational methods.

    Not according to the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

    Who is your source?

    YouTube - Peter King: Bin Laden's Death Came From Waterboarding

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If he was in Pakistan, how could he be in the the hills of Tora Bora?
    I was referring to when he left that area heading towards Pakistan. It's my believe he's been there ever since.

    Maybe Bush knew something the rest of us didn't?

    And of course they got the revelation of who the couriers were as a result of water boarding. George Bush deserves credit for that.
    Maybe he (GWB) did know something the rest of us didn't concerning OBL while he was in Tora Bora, maybe he didn't. But I say when you have the nation's #1 enemy within your grasps you DON'T let him get away!!

    On the issue of the intel gathered from KSM from him being waterboarded...okay...I'll conceed we got lucky on that note. KSM cracked and provided a solid piece of information we could use - the "name" of the courier OBL was using. But I think we could have followed the courier and got OBL even if we didn't know the courier's name. Knowing such certainly made the job easier, no doubt! But we've know OBL has used couriers to get information in and out of his protected area since the Russian/Afghan war. For folks to be acting as if getting the name of the courier just because KSM was waterboarded is some big revelation, so big in fact that the Special-Ops mission couldn't have taken place without the info, is kinda foolhearty to me. It made tracking this guy (courier) alot easier, but I think we could have found OBL without knowing the courier's name. Might have taken longer, but I'm convinced we've have found him because that's kinda what we'd been doing almost from the start - first following OBL's drive* , then his AL Jazeera video couriers.

    *[B]Ref source(s): Books - 9/11 Commission Report, Your Government Failed You and Broken Government

  8. #668
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The mental acrobatics you have to do in order to read that sentence and gather that Osama was a pawn of the US are amazing. The rest of your post is just gibberish.
    Great debate tactic. Here, let me try: To everything you just said, NUH UH!

  9. #669
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Not according to the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

    Who is your source?

    YouTube - Peter King: Bin Laden's Death Came From Waterboarding
    ...but refuted by Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Exclusive: There Was No Waterboarding of Courier Source

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    nice job..................

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