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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

  1. #631
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Not that I agree with gekaap, but where exactly are you getting that Obama increased the number of troops in Iraq?
    I was thinking the troop surge in Iraq was under Obama. It was under Bush. Oopsy.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Waterbaording is a training technique, how can it be torture?
    What do you mean by training technique? I know some specops guys are subjected to methods that are considered torture in the course of their training, like in SERE. Doesn't mean the practice isn't torture

    Waterboarding | Define Waterboarding at Dictionary.com

    waterboarding (ˈwɔːtəˌbɔːdɪŋ)

    — n
    a form of torture in which the victim is immobilized and has water poured on his or her face, producing a severe gag reflex, to simulate drowning
    You're made to feel like you are drowning. If not performed properly, waterboarding can actually result in permanent physical damage and even death. It most definitely is a form of torture.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    I was thinking the troop surge in Iraq was under Obama. It was under Bush. Oopsy.
    No problem, glad that's cleared up and that you're honest enough to admit a mistake.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Oh please....if Bush/Cheney use of torture had been effective at all, Bin Laden would have been captured years ago.
    And that is your opinion. Fine. But, to that I would argue: not necessarily. Remember, OBL and AQ senior leaders long ago became quite adept at keeping their locations known only to those with an immediate need to know, which we came to find out, meant primarily only those couriers used to communicate with AQ. Note in the details that have become available, the importance of the identity of OBL's "favorite" courier and how long it took to first identify him, then track him to his lair - it took years.

    The cellular structure employed by AQ and most terrorist organizations is quite effective at preventing the capture and interrogation of one person from revealing the identity and location of other cells - because they don't know it. Hence, the importance of knowledge of their communications methods and using that knowledge to trace and identify other cells.
    The purpose of economic forecasting is to make astrology look legitimate. - John Kenneth Galbraith

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    There is really know way to know if the operation actually killed bin Laden. The body wasn't provided for independent examination, and the US government is not a credible institution, having established a long-standing reputation of manufacturing "truths" to fit its agenda.

    Furthermore, there have been several past reports about bin Laden having already been dead.

    In any case, this supposed "death" is a good thing. One less reason for the war-mongering righties to call for more trillion dollar deficit spending in glitzy but impractical military hardware.
    Last edited by solletica; 05-03-11 at 02:32 PM.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I agree, I disagree that waterbaording and sleep deprivation can honestly be catagorized as torture.
    Get yourself waterboarded and get back to us. Go for 60 hours without sleep and get back to us.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Waterbaording is a training technique, how can it be torture?
    So is forced marching but it usually stops when people have had enough. The power of torture is that the victims never know when it will end.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Appeal to emotion.

    Yawn

    I'm sleepy.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tjinta ibis View Post
    So is forced marching but it usually stops when people have had enough. The power of torture is that the victims never know when it will end.

    Considering the enemy we face, I am interested in what your approach to gain information from these prisoners would be?

    j-mac
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I agree, I disagree that waterbaording and sleep deprivation can honestly be catagorized as torture.
    Perhaps the families of the Japanese soldiers hanged by the United States for waterboarding Americans have a good wrongful death claim against the US

    McCain: Japanese Hanged For Waterboarding - CBS News

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