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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

  1. #601
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Ever since bin Laden escaped in Afghanistan's Tora Bora mountain region in 2001 after Al-Qaeda's deadly September 11 strikes, his trail had gone largely cold as he stayed hidden and avoided telephone calls that US spies could trace.

    But senior officials said that they had a breakthrough last September, when they managed to link two couriers used by bin Laden to contact the outside world to a compound in the leafy garrison city near Islamabad.

    The New York Times meanwhile reported that two Pakistani agents working for the CIA had earlier managed to identify one of the couriers in Peshawar, allowing US intelligence to trail him all the way to the Abbottabad site.

    That breakthrough in turn was made possible years earlier, by information wrung out of high-level Al-Qaeda operatives about the identify of the courier under harsh CIA interrogations, the paper said.
    Daily Nation:*- World*|How US spies found bin Laden's hideout


    "Torture" FTW
    Last edited by ecofarm; 05-03-11 at 10:52 AM.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm It took over 8 years from that time to this before someone within government to finally get a clue and simply follow the couriers. (My wife and I had been saying it for years considering that's how he's been getting videos to Al Jazeera all these years.)
    Holy Smokes, you're right. Why do we even bother with an intelligence community, we could just have Objective Voice and his wife do it. Obviously all we needed to do is walk out somewhere and go "whose the courier for Osama" and just follow them. Seriously, sorry for the sarcasm but I sat flabbergasted reading your post. I understand your sentiment man but your words just shows the absolute lack of familairity with the concept of intelligence gathering and how difficult something like that is. Life isn't like a movie.

    From everything I've heard intelligence analysists that have talked about how this have gone down, this has been an intel gathering exercise of 4 to 6 years, gather from multiple interrogations and intelligence efforts followed by observation and survelliance before it even got to the point where scenarios can be created, authorized, practiced, and then the actual authorization for action to occur. While the whole thing may've taken 40 minutes the operation in reality was likely a half decade or more in the making. We're acting with military lives, in a soverign foreign country, in the middle of a war that PR is important in, where intel is at a premium. The last thing anyone from the lowest man on the chain up to the President wants to do is to go off bad information, or worse, go off partial information too early and thus ruin an entire string of intelligence due to over eagerness and lack of patience.

    A pseudonym or alias starts to show up in a few different interrogations. Perhaps some intelligence information gathered on the ground points to it as well. If the information seems legit they may run it past a high level detainee to see if there's outright denial which would be unrealistic or if they'll spill the beans, trying to get some feel for the legitimacy of the information. Once the information seems significantly legitimate they'll start attempting to match the alias or pseudonym to an actual family name or person. To then attempt to track down that person to watch and see what he does and where he goes, further verifying it. Then comes intelligence gathering of what location may be the point in which we think is important and once determining that doing significant survelliance of that location to learn all that is possible about it. Then comes time to create the various plans of action that will need to be submitted for decision. And that's just to start AND that's the simple possability for one courier direct to Obama. Add to those steps significantly if they are acting intelligently with a system or network of people where one goes to one goes to another goes to Obama, where its more likely we find out the name of the low man on the pole and then having to start tracking up.

    While it seems simple to go "find the courier" its likely kind of like saying Brain Surgery is cutting into someones head. It sounds simple, its really not.

    This success goes first and foremost to the Intelligence Community and the Military that did the majority of the work in finding this out, prepping it, and executing it. Props go to Obama for pulling the trigger and giving the green light, as well to Bush for laying the groundwork for such intelligence to be done and function by allowing for more sharing and interplay between the community. Both Presidents finger prints are on this, but your people on the podium in place one, two, and three should all be our Intelligence and military men and women.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    So, was Bush right in "torturing" someone to get bin Laden?

    Did torture work?!


    I've been saying for years, torture for verifiable information works but torture for confession does not.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 05-03-11 at 10:59 AM.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    So, was Bush right in "torturing" someone to get bin Laden?

    Did torture work?!


    I've been saying for years, torture for information works but torture for confession does not.
    well, if bush's torture worked, clearly we would have had osama long ago. doesn't matter now, though, he's dead and although this is symbolic, it's good for america.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    The waterboarding (of only three terrorists) lead directly to this event, and made it possible.


    Deal with it.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 05-03-11 at 11:06 AM.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    According to news reports, the intel that gave us bin Laden's possible position was aquired in 2010. Bush was already out of office.
    Only half the story Dana. Actions such as what happened on Sunday do not come about because one guy said one thing and that's it. What intel came before that had them thinking this direction that KSM simply cooberated enough to make it look legitimate? Did he just throw the info out, or was there spurring in that direction by interrogators and if there was, how exactly did they get that information to know to go that route? When hearing people, such as retired CIA analysists, speak rather than reporters all indications I keep hearing is that this was likely based off a long string of intelligence dating back multiple years that begins to weave itself into a clear picture. KSM's statements provided a vital stitch to that tapestry, but it was not the first...nor the last...that allowed it to go. For example, your story itself references agents mentioning information gathering regarding the intelligence concerning this courier as far back as 2004....7 years ago.

    Also, while waterboarding did not lead directly to him revealing this information that does not mean that it was not a contributing factor. If the water boarding is what played into the "breaking" of KSM as some have suggested that turned him into a more willing asset, then information that comes after it is in part borne from that even if its was not directly use prior to it. To give an analogy (Albeit likely somewhat poor), if you have a girlfriend cheat on you multiple times 4 years ago you may be less apt to trust your current girlfriend. She didn't necessarily do something to cause that distrust, but rather something from past experiences with girlfriends changed your natural outlook and proclivity to a certain nature. In this case, there's no evidence that the actions taken upon KSM that "broke" him and "turned" him weren't still playing their effects some time later that resulted in him giving information that he wouldn't have otherwise given.

    Did waterboarding cause this to happen? Impossible to tell. We don't know who else was subjected to it prior to KSM's statement that KSM's comments possibly just cooberated. We don't know what affect it had on KSM in general being more willing to talk. But we do know that the intelligence community functioned together on this, something formerly extremely difficult to do, and that the initial following of this string which from your own story seems to suggest started as early of 2004 began under George Bush.

    Credit to Obama shouldn't be taken away for having the guts to give the go ahead on something that, when it comes to intelligence, is almost never a sure thing and could put Americans at risk. And for pushing it head strongly once we had enough concrete evidence to really run with. But credit should not be taken from Bush and what he did to allow for this to occur and to get the ball rolling, let alone the ridiculous attempts to suggest the opposite...that Bush actually acted against this from happening as some have been suggesting.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The waterboarding (of only three terrorists) lead directly to this event, and made it possible.


    Deal with it.
    It's almost pointless. Even when a media source provides an unbiased time line of all the events involved in getting this guy anything prior to 2009 doesn't matter to some. Just like nothing prior to 2001 matters to those who would blame Bush for 9/11. Selective history isn't truth, but every political side does it, so other than being utterly frustrated by it, there isn't much we can do..ya know?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    What's this then:


    That breakthrough in turn was made possible years earlier, by information wrung out of high-level Al-Qaeda operatives about the identify of the courier under harsh CIA interrogations, the paper said.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The waterboarding lead directly to this event, and made it possible.


    Deal with it.

    ALSO some of it
    Oh please when in 2007 was it made if Obama?



    Also To Tess

    I doubt the information came from 2007 he wasn't even wanting to fine the person in question from the Youtube video I posted. All the conservatives are trying to spin it in too something Bush did was actually lead to this which is bull****. His information sucked and the fact that he said he was in some cave somewhere which wasn't true in first place.

    I really highly doubt that this man was even looking for him in the first place Also below is a clip from the Young Turks show he respecify said my thoughts in this as well. Bush had EIGHT freaking Years to get Osama Bin Laden and he didn't get him in the first place so why should I beleive he was looking for him and that Torturing actually worked in getting him. .


    Last edited by RyrineaHaruno; 05-03-11 at 11:14 AM.

  10. #610
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The waterboarding (of only three terrorists) lead directly to this event, and made it possible.


    Deal with it.
    i had no idea. what have i missed on this story? my daughter got married sunday, so i haven't had time to breathe. did obama have terrorists waterboarded? btw, you're quite rude.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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