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Osama Bin Laden is dead

yup, the facts

per the ig report endorsed by eric holder's doj, aug, 2009

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

after a month of brutal eit's in a secret prison in europe ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

ksm "transformed" into langley's "preeminent source on aq"

the 9-11 mastermind conducted "terrorist tutorials"

"detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of"

"cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

"ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

thanks!

and thanks to president barack the slasher hussein for FAILING in his peurile, political purpose of purging his predecessor's policies

the entire nation is grateful to all responsible for this historic GET
 
Alright then.

It's conceded that the quote, "only after his spirit was broken," does not come from the IG report as previously stated.

I recognize most of the other quotes from the report. Since they are presented as clauses and phrases, I shouldn't have to point out that they are being presented w/o context, because that's pretty much as literally w/o context as you can get. But, this being the int4rwebz, I will go ahead and point out that the clauses and phrases being presented are presented out of context.

Further, some of the context that these phrase exist in, (in their natural state), is contrary to the position taken by the poster who presenting the quotes w/o context. If this weren't t3h int4rwebz, I wouldn't've said that because it's borderline needless to say. But this is teh intarwebz, so I will go ahead and say it.
 
LOL!

After enduring the CIA's harshest interrogation methods and spending more than a year in the agency's secret prisons, Khalid Sheik Mohammed stood before U.S. intelligence officers in a makeshift lecture hall, leading what they called "terrorist tutorials."

These scenes provide previously unpublicized details about the transformation of the man known to U.S. officials as KSM from an avowed and truculent enemy of the United States into what the CIA called its "preeminent source" on al-Qaeda. This reversal occurred after Mohammed was subjected to simulated drowning and prolonged sleep deprivation, among other harsh interrogation techniques.

The debate over the effectiveness of subjecting detainees to psychological and physical pressure is in some ways irresolvable, because it is impossible to know whether less coercive methods would have achieved the same result. But for defenders of waterboarding, the evidence is clear: Mohammed cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent, only when his spirit was broken in the month after his capture March 1, 2003, as the inspector general's report and other documents released this week indicate.

"Certain of the techniques seemed to have little effect, whereas waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information," [helgerson] said in an interview.

Mohammed described plans to strike targets in Saudi Arabia, East Asia and the United States after the Sept. 11 attacks, including using a network of Pakistanis "to target gas stations, railroad tracks, and the Brooklyn bridge in New York." Cross-referencing material from different detainees, and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the CIA and FBI went on to round up operatives both in the United States and abroad.

"Detainees in mid-2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals -- many of who we had never heard of before -- that al-Qaeda deemed suitable for Western operations," according to the CIA summary.

Mohammed was an unparalleled source in deciphering al-Qaeda's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets, the summary said, including describing in "considerable detail the traits and profiles" that al-Qaeda sought in Western operatives and how the terrorist organization might conduct surveillance in the United States.

link above
 
Well, you quoted from a newspaper article, and not the IG report. but w/e.

I think you did good.

However, in context, his claim is that we got the OBL intel not only after "his spirit was broken," but that this means the EITs got us that information. This has not been supported by either the IG report, or anything else I'm aware of.
 
anything else you're aware of---LOL!

which means the news hasn't yet appeared on whitehouse.gov

or in sydney, australia

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

after a month of brutal eit's in a secret prison in europe ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

ksm "transformed" into langley's "preeminent source on aq"

the 9-11 mastermind conducted "terrorist tutorials"

"detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of"

"cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

"ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

thanks!
 
Prof, none of that speaks to the intel recieved concerning OBL, which we're told was gathered long after the EITs. If they had in any role, we would have gotten it sooner. You have to willing suspend disbelief to buy that they played a major role in that intel.
 
"after the eit's"

yup, that would be in the period when ksm was conducting "terrorist tutorials"

when he was langley's "preeminent source on aq"

when ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

that's when the cia went on "to build a list of 70 individuals, many of whom we had never heard of"

our heroic agents then went on to "cross reference material from different detainees and leverage information from one to extract more detail from another"

this is what allowed "the cia and fbi to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

"ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

oh, yeah, one more thing: "waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

I have no desire to waste my time with your silliness

LOL!

say hi to sydney
 
Yes, Prof, I did let you draw me in. But you don't ever really answer my questions. That makes you a waste of time and effort.
 
from the ig report released by eric holder's doj on the monday preceding aug 29, 2009:

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

after a month of brutal eit's in a secret prison in europe ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

ksm "transformed" into langley's "preeminent source on aq"

the 9-11 mastermind conducted "terrorist tutorials"

"detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of"

"cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

"ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

thanks!
 
Just one more time, that DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE INTEL CONCERNING OBL. So, it is meaningless in answering me. :2wave:
 
Just one more time

LOL!

the preeminent source on aq has nothing to do with intel concerning ubl---that's NOT what eric holder said

america is grateful president barack the slasher hussein FAILED so comprehensively in his ridiculously wrong minded attempts to undo the anti terror policies of his predecessors, thus allowing our agents and heroic seals to accomplish this historic assassination

USA!
 
Oh please. If you had read what is being said, it wasn't the EIT's that were the yield of intel, but after their spirit to resist was broken then more traditional methods could be used.
That is what Cheney and the rest of the righties are trying to push, but it has been refuted. Waterboarding did not yield the info that Cheney and Thiessen both claim.

The first report, dated July 13, 2004, is titled "Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: Preeminent Source on al-Qaida." The second report, dated June 3, 2005, is titled "Detainee Reporting Pivotal for the War Against al-Qaida." As the titles suggest, these reports are not about the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of water-boarding and other techniques employed to elicit information from enemy combatants; they speak only to the value of the information gleaned from Sheikh Mohammed and other detainees. We know that Sheikh Mohammed and other detainees were water-boarded, but the reports shed no light on what they said before they were water-boarded versus what they said afterward.
To the extent that the two reports explore detainees' reasons for revealing valued information, it is to demonstrate not how difficult it was to elicit but how easy. Sheikh Mohammed, we learn, "appears to have calculated, incorrectly, that we had this information [about al-Qaida's attempts to acquire biological and chemical weapons] already." What a chump! Also, "almost immediately following his capture in March 2003," Sheikh Mohammed "elaborated on his plan to crash commercial airplanes into Heathrow Airport." This was probably because he knew a key plotter was already in custody. But he "withheld details about the evolution of the operation until confronted with"—a cat-o'-nine-tails?—no (yawn), just "reporting from two other operatives knowledgeable concerning the plot." Sheikh Mohammed dropped a dime on Iyman Faris, a truck driver from Ohio with whom Sheikh Mohammed had plotted to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge by cutting its cables with acetylene torches. Sheikh Mohammed, we learn, gave Faris up "oon after his arrest." Far from a tough nut, the Sheikh Mohammed who emerges from these reports sounds like a regular Chatty Cathy.
Abu Zubaydah (whose importance within al-Qaida later became a matter of some dispute) identified Sheikh Mohammed as 9/11's mastermind "early in his detention," which, a March 29 Washington Post story reported, citing unnamed CIA officials, was before Zubaydah was water-boarded. After Zubaydah was water-boarded, the Post said, "Zubaida's revelations triggered a series of alerts and sent hundreds of CIA and FBI investigators scurrying in pursuit of phantoms." Every lead "ultimately dissolved into smoke and shadow, according to high-ranking former U.S. officials with access to classified reports."

Cheney's CIA memos don't show what he said they'd show. - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

BTW, do you know of a method that is 100% reliable in intel gathering? I don't. And I spent 6 years in the Army including the 101st.
The CIA can obtain valuable information with just using regular methods, other than "torture".



Interrogation Experts From Every Branch of the Military and Intelligence Agree: Torture DOESN’T Produce Useful Information | The Big Picture



All intel has to be verified.
Not sure what that has to do with the fact that a speech writer doesn't know what the CIA does when it comes to information gathering.
 
"preeminent source"

"unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

"cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

"only after his spirit was broken"

"terrorist tutorials"

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

"detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of before"

"cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

ig report, released by doj, aug, 2009

thanks for the opportunity to repeat mr helgerson's conclusions

most helpful

Cheney said the same thing, that doesn't make it true.

Cheney's CIA memos don't show what he said they'd show. - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

You are reading stuff into what he said and assuming.

Interrogation Experts From Every Branch of the Military and Intelligence Agree: Torture DOESN’T Produce Useful Information | The Big Picture
 
the link has been posted at least a dozen times, count your own pages

meanwhile: "waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

direct quote from john l helgerson, cia ig, as made public by holder's doj on the monday preceding aug 29, 2009


Er, wrong.

• The CIA’s own Inspector General wrote that waterboarding was not “efficacious” in producing information.

Interrogation Experts From Every Branch of the Military and Intelligence Agree: Torture DOESN’T Produce Useful Information | The Big Picture
 
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This article only claims he "cooperated" - does not mention what information he provided, if that info was helpful in finding OBL. Like I said before, you are reading stuff that is not there into what this article says. Cooperated could mean many things, maybe he was no longer combative, or disagreeable, - still does not say he provided info they found useful.

From your link:
Mohammed cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent, only when his spirit was broken in the month after his capture March 1, 2003, as the inspector general's report and other documents released this week indicate.
 
LOL!

the ig's conclusions speak for themselves

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

after a month of brutal eit's in a secret prison in europe ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

ksm "transformed" into langley's "preeminent source on aq"

the 9-11 mastermind conducted "terrorist tutorials"

"detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of"

"cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

"ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

america is grateful to barack the slasher hussein for failing so comprehensively in his repeated and wrong minded attempts to undo the anti terror policies of his predecessors---including detention, gitmo and the patriot act---thus allowing our diligent agents and heroic seals to realize this historic assassination

USA!
 
mertex, would you say that Slate, and some blog may not be the most objective sourcing?

j-mac
 
I have to credit the President and his team with getting Osama. President Obama gave the green light and VICTORY by the navy seals!
 
I agree with you. But,to some degree it wouldn't matter if The Lord God rode down on a chariot of glory and proclaimed something.

http://armed-services.senate.gov/Publications/Detainee Report Final_April 22 2009.pdf
http://www.fas.org/irp/dni/educing.pdf
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB27/01-01.htm

Well, at this point you are probably right. Those entrenched in what worked, and what didn't are set in their opinions. What gets me is how those that couldn't stand what the Bush administration was doing in terms of the WoT, and Iraq, and Afghanistan, and largely silent now, when Obama is continuing the exact same policies.

It's all hypocritical.

j-mac
 
I have to credit the President and his team with getting Osama. President Obama gave the green light and VICTORY by the navy seals!

Could you imagine if we had found out later that Obama had scuttled the mission to get him? I don't think he had a choice really.

Remember, Obama thinks of everything in terms of political gain, or damage.

j-mac
 
Could you imagine if we had found out later that Obama had scuttled the mission to get him? I don't think he had a choice really.

Remember, Obama thinks of everything in terms of political gain, or damage.

j-mac

But he didn't so we don't have to think about that. And I believe that every PRESIDENT or potential president thinks of everything in terms of political gain or damage. That's how they all think which is why we are in the mess we are in due to both parties.
 
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