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Osama Bin Laden is dead

But in terms of the actual conflicts revolving around Islamic Radicalism, I don't see how this frankly changes much besides making him a matyr and not putting him through the justice system. I'd prefer to have him rot in prison after a length trial dictating just how evil that man really is.

Most of us already know how evil he was and this is why it is such a great thing he is dead.
 
I don't want to get into a full blown argument, so let me put it this way: Bush started the war in Afghanistan, and this is part of that war. Ergo, he deserves credit for starting the war, if nothing else.

So let's say I start dinner. I screw it up royally, and give up deciding it's not that important. Now, my wife comes along and decides that it really is important after all, and fixes my mess and makes a wonderful meal. Do I deserve any credit?
 
Why? Islamic terrorists don't work in an unified system taking orders and feeding intelligence to each other.

Their network is in such disaray, almost non-existent.


Bin Laden was nothing more than a figurehead. And killing figureheads in Islam makes them martyrs. Sure it was good to get him, but killing him may actually make this worse. IMO, if Bin Laden has to die, let him die of a slow death from his various ailments on the run like a coward rather than in a firefight and being killed by Americans.

Given the politics of trying a terrorist in this country, especially a big fish like bin Ladin, I'm glad he went for suicide by Seal.



IMO we have basically lost the largest propaganda opportunity we'll ever going to have.

The majority of the world is with us on this one. They stood by us through a false war, they'll certainly support a real victory.

This was handled brilliantly by Obama.
 
Ideally you capture him and bring him to justice, but failing that, Americans tracking him down and killing him is pretty important and a much, much better outcome than allowing him to live well in a large Pakistani mansion.

How is killing a man who has no control over his own organization important when the act of killing him makes him a martyr? Sure killing Osama was important circa 2002 when he had some control but the situtation has changed so radically that the terror organizations we face today are frankly nothing like they were in 2001.

I think you are splitting hairs here and calling the difference the Grand Canyon. It is not. This is a very important milestone, just as cornering Hitler was an important milestone.

I'm not saying it is not important. I'm saying outside of a symbolic victory, this frankly means ****.

Surely this does not end terrorism nor Al Qadea, but do not underestimate the importance of symbolism, particularly with the Arab world. For 10 years he got away with 9/11..... now justice has at least caught up with the figurehead and command and control of Al Qaeda.

I guess but in terms of getting out of these conflicts and making the world a safer place, his death really changes nothing.
 
Most of us already know how evil he was and this is why it is such a great thing he is dead.

It doesn't matter what we think. It matters what the Arab and Muslim world thinks. An international tribunal with Muslim lawyers prosecuting him would absolutely be a crushing blow to Islamic Radicalism. Only an idiot (and many here) think this can be done by pure military operations. The real war is not on the physical battlefield. It's in the minds of our potential enemies. Israel knows this. It's won almost every war. Has it found real, genuine peace?
 
I'd be concerned about keeping him captured. Of course, it'd be great, and I wish we could have like paraded him as a POW through the streets of NYC, let some citizens at him...and then put him in the most patriotic jail in the country.

But him dead is good too. Like Lucky said, he knew America f**ked him over before he died, thats good enough for me.

GUYS!!!

The PREFERRED outcome was bin Laden dead with an American bullet in his head.

Bin Laden ALIVE and captured meant American hostages taken and held as ransom for bin Laden's release. America is safer for having killed this POS, even if that meant making the maggot a "martyr". Seriously, do try to engage a few brain cells and think about this. What would the terrorists say once bin Laden was sentenced to death and executed in a federal prison?

They'd say exactly what they'r going to be saying now, that their bearded hate-monger died a martyr at the hands of the Great Satan.

That single bullet, costing no more than a buck, saved the US taxpayers' MILLIONS of dollars.

Besides, with Holder in Justice, it's possible bin Laden could have gotten an acquittal.
 
Their network is in such disaray, almost non-existent.

According to whom?

Given the politics of trying a terrorist in this country, especially a big fish like bin Ladin, I'm glad he went for suicide by Seal.

It's attitudes like yours that will have us fighting this war forever. Until we win the PR war, we will never end this conflict.

The majority of the world is with us on this one. They stood by us through a false war, they'll certainly support a real victory.

This was handled brilliantly by Obama.

Really? Care to look at the views on terrorism in the Middle East?

Tell me how this is more than a symbolic victory. Try.
 
The real war is not on the physical battlefield. It's in the minds of our potential enemies. Israel knows this. It's won almost every war. Has it found real, genuine peace?

Blood for the blood god. Skulls for the skull throne. The only reason Israel is still at war is because their hands have been tied by an international community that profits from the continued conflict.
 
It doesn't matter what we think. It matters what the Arab and Muslim world thinks. An international tribunal with Muslim lawyers prosecuting him would absolutely be a crushing blow to Islamic Radicalism. Only an idiot (and many here) think this can be done by pure military operations. The real war is not on the physical battlefield. It's in the minds of our potential enemies. Israel knows this. It's won almost every war. Has it found real, genuine peace?

And there would have been no reason to convene an international tribunal for a criminal mass-murderer captured by US forces in a US led operation. And no reason to risk an acquittal when the outcome in an American court would be almost certain to yield the necessar guilt verdicts.

Besides, if the US had captured him, just imagine how much information water boarding him could have yielded.

He should be buried with a genuine American football, a real pigskin.
 
How is killing a man who has no control over his own organization important when the act of killing him makes him a martyr? Sure killing Osama was important circa 2002 when he had some control but the situtation has changed so radically that the terror organizations we face today are frankly nothing like they were in 2001.

Yes, we screwed up royally not getting him in 2002 or 2003.... that was a major FU

I'm not saying it is not important. I'm saying outside of a symbolic victory, this frankly means ****
.

You are acknowledging that it might be important yet means *****? Which is it?

Sorry, but its more important that we eventually got the guy then allow him to life in luxury in Pakistan. Prehaps you would like to make the argument we should have left him alone or perhaps we could have just sent a FedEx envelope with a letter that said "we know where you live" We attack and the guy is going to make a choice to live or to die. That is going to be his choice. Our choice is to attack or not. If you have the intell, then what on earth are you suggesting? Please explain, as at first blush your position makes zero sense.

I guess but in terms of getting out of these conflicts and making the world a safer place, his death really changes nothing.

I agree. We continue to have problems in the middle east. But this was extremely important for the American people. It should have happened 8 years ago. Justice deferred is justice denied.
 
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Why? He used 9/11. He chose to not let a good crisis go to waste, but rather used it to support his foray into Iraq. He never seriously chased Bin Laden and therefore gets zero credit.

YouTube - Bush: Truly not concerned about bin Laden (short version)

Yes, yes, yes. Keep up this sentiment as such idiocy will ensure another thrashing in 2012.

You know nothing of Bush's "efforts" in pursuing bin Laden. Who are you? Nobody. You're half the problem.

Obama was sat down and explained how the world really is after he got elected, and he abandoned the spineless, naive childishness his supporters cling to. He had to. I'd bet what he learned scared the absolute hell out of him.

The one thing I admire about Obama is that he intensely loves his family and fatherhood is something he embraces completely. What he learned those early days, I believe, showed him that what Bush was doing was truly in the best interest of both of their children's futures.

Hence, Gitmo is alive and well, Iraq efforts have been fortified instead of reduced, Afghanistan is bloodier than ever because of intense battles, and all this is happening amidst involvements in multiple other regime changes in the region.

Congratulations to Presidents Obama and Bush tonight. Well done, sirs.

Now, we must ALL be diligent. Response(s) are most certainly coming, of what sophistication and location we don't know.

I'm also deeply disturbed that Pakistan was not more helpful. They had to know of a mansion this size so different than anything around it, yet they said norhing. India is pissed I'm sure. Different story for another thread and day.
 
GUYS!!!

The PREFERRED outcome was bin Laden dead with an American bullet in his head.

Bin Laden ALIVE and captured meant American hostages taken and held as ransom for bin Laden's release. America is safer for having killed this POS, even if that meant making the maggot a "martyr". Seriously, do try to engage a few brain cells and think about this. What would the terrorists say once bin Laden was sentenced to death and executed in a federal prison?

They'd say exactly what they'r going to be saying now, that their bearded hate-monger died a martyr at the hands of the Great Satan.

That single bullet, costing no more than a buck, saved the US taxpayers' MILLIONS of dollars.

Besides, with Holder in Justice, it's possible bin Laden could have gotten an acquittal.

I agree except for the martyr part. He was shot like a rat at the dump. And a trial would have been a propaganda opportunity for him.
 
Blood for the blood god. Skulls for the skull throne. The only reason Israel is still at war is because their hands have been tied by an international community that profits from the continued conflict.

Only reason? So you are basically saying the international community is basically teaching Muslim children to hate Israel and encouraging Israel to react harshly to any threat? Really. I don't doubt that to some degree the underlying conflicts keep going because someone is profiting, but it's far more than just that.
 
It's attitudes like yours that will have us fighting this war forever. Until we win the PR war, we will never end this conflict.

Until Islam is radically reformed to implement notions of humility that simply do not exist within it today, there's no chance that the religion of Islam can ever stop shedding little terrorists and little kooks. Christianity is a genuine kook factory and Jesus never taught murder as an evangelical tool.

Tell me how this is more than a symbolic victory. Try.

Everytime a leader of al qeada pops his head up long enough to be noticed, a sniper from the US Army shoots it off.

That's the message to be taken today.
 
And there would have been no reason to convene an international tribunal for a criminal mass-murderer captured by US forces in a US led operation.

No reason? So apparently handing Islamic terrorism it's soul crushing propaganda defeat is "no reason." Sounds like you have a profit motive in keeping this conflict going indefinitely.

And no reason to risk an acquittal when the outcome in an American court would be almost certain to yield the necessar guilt verdicts.

Really? So you think he'd get an acquittal despite evidence of him taking credit for it? Videos of what amounts to CONFESSIONS of being responsible would render an acquittal? You are crazy.

Besides, if the US had captured him, just imagine how much information water boarding him could have yielded.

Probably nothing considering how the organization and its affiliates are now run.

He should be buried with a genuine American football, a real pigskin.

Look kids. Another person who wants to see Americans dying in foreign fields and treasure leaving American coffers indefinitely.
 
I agree except for the martyr part. He was shot like a rat at the dump. And a trial would have been a propaganda opportunity for him.

The al Jezeera spin doctors can do just as good a job as the pros Obama has hired.

Within a week the Muslim world will know bin Laden was shot in the back while at prayer in a mosque.
 
According to whom?

Every expert on terrorism


As a result of the U.S. using its special forces and providing air support for the Northern Alliance ground forces, both Taliban and al-Qaeda training camps were destroyed, and much of the operating structure of al-Qaeda is believed to have been disrupted. After being driven from their key positions in the Tora Bora area of Afghanistan, many al-Qaeda fighters tried to regroup in the rugged Gardez region of the nation.

Again, under the cover of intense aerial bombardment, U.S. infantry and local Afghan forces attacked, shattering the al-Qaeda position and killing or capturing many of the militants. By early 2002, al-Qaeda had been dealt a serious blow to its operational capacity, and the Afghan invasion appeared an initial success. Nevertheless, a significant Taliban insurgency remains in Afghanistan, and al-Qaeda's top two leaders, bin Laden and al-Zawahiri, evaded capture.



It's attitudes like yours that will have us fighting this war forever. Until we win the PR war, we will never end this conflict.

Obama and Hilary Clinton have been winning the PR war and getting grief from the far-right for doing so. The idiots at Fox News call it the apology tour.






Yes, the majority of the world was on our side on 9/11.

Care to look at the views on terrorism in the Middle East?

The majority of the people there condemn terrorism.

Tell me how this is more than a symbolic victory. Try.

Turn on your TV. This means something to the majority of Americans.

It is, finally, some light in the darkness that has been the past decade. Hopefully, more Americans will move toward a pragmatic center, and start ignoring the fear-mongers on both fringes.
 
Yes, yes, yes. Keep up this sentiment as such idiocy will ensure another thrashing in 2012.

Sorry, but in case you don't have a TV, Obama just won 2012 tonight.
 
Yes, we screwed up royally not getting him in 2002 or 2003.... that was a major FU

Hence why Bush was somewhat right in basically calling off the search. Osama became irrelevant.

You are acknowledging that it might be important yet means *****? Which is it?

Read carefully.

This is no question a symbolic victory.
This means nothing in terms of ending the actual conflicts.
Two very different things.

Sorry, but its more important that we eventually got the guy then allow him to life in luxury in Pakistan. Prehaps you would like to make the argument we should have left him alone or perhaps we could have just sent a FedEx envelope with a letter that said "we know where you live" We attack and the guy is going to make a choice to live or to die. That is going to be his choice. Our choice is to attack or not. If you have the intell, then what on earth are you suggesting? Please explain, as at first blush your position makes zero sense.

Let's recap.
1) Osama has no control
2) Osama has become functionally irrelevant
3) Killing Osama removes our biggest propaganda attack on Islamic terrorism
4) Killing Osama likely generates huge martyr issues

My question now is why didn't we just gas the compound?

I'm not one for symbolic victories. I'm for getting us out of this mess without compromising security.
 
Yes, yes, yes. Keep up this sentiment as such idiocy will ensure another thrashing in 2012.

You know nothing of Bush's "efforts" in pursuing bin Laden. Who are you? Nobody. You're half the problem.

Obama was sat down and explained how the world really is after he got elected, and he abandoned the spineless, naive childishness his supporters cling to. He had to. I'd bet what he learned scared the absolute hell out of him.

The one thing I admire about Obama is that he intensely loves his family and fatherhood is something he embraces completely. What he learned those early days, I believe, showed him that what Bush was doing was truly in the best interest of both of their children's futures.

Hence, Gitmo is alive and well, Iraq efforts have been fortified instead of reduced, Afghanistan is bloodier than ever because of intense battles, and all this is happening amidst involvements in multiple other regime changes in the region.

Congratulations to Presidents Obama and Bush tonight. Well done, sirs.

Now, we must ALL be diligent. Response(s) are most certainly coming, of what sophistication and location we don't know.

I'm also deeply disturbed that Pakistan was not more helpful. They had to know of a mansion this size so different than anything around it, yet they said norhing. India is pissed I'm sure. Different story for another thread and day.

The facts speak for themselves. Bush did not get the job done. Of course, if you want to investigate the litany of news reports from 2003-2006, it was very clear that the pursuit of Bin Laden and endeavors of Afghanistan were de-emphasized in favor of Iraq. Bush's own words per the posted video are an illustration of this. You are a student of politics. Surely you appreciate Bush's words were measured and designed to level set the American people not to expect Bin Laden to be brought to justice in the near future. This was either because they were not working on it, or Bush was acknowledging Bin Laden was out of our league. Which was it? Perhaps you are of the camp that believes Bin Laden's capabilities exceeded that of US intelligence and the military... for 1o years, no less Do you really believe our intelligence is that weak?

Obama focused on it and got the job done in 2 years. The facts speak for themselves.

I take your overly personal tirade as proof that I hit a raw nerve with the truth.
 
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No reason? So apparently handing Islamic terrorism it's soul crushing propaganda defeat is "no reason." Sounds like you have a profit motive in keeping this conflict going indefinitely.

It wasn't their people who got murdered. So they can but out. That's not complicated. If the "Muslim World" is serious about it's role in the world, it can start learning that there are places where it has no role and no welcoe.

Really? So you think he'd get an acquittal despite evidence of him taking credit for it? Videos of what amounts to CONFESSIONS of being responsible would render an acquittal? You are crazy.

The one terrorst Eric Holder put on trial had over 200 charges acquitted and only one guilty, and that a misdemeanor. There's no reason to suppose the present administration would pursue this case vigorously.

Probably nothing considering how the organization and its affiliates are now run.

Not likely. The Alpha-Male is going to insist on being in the know and making suggestions.

Anything else is inconsistent with the caveman mentality of terrorists.

Look kids. Another person who wants to see Americans dying in foreign fields and treasure leaving American coffers indefinitely.

Lookiie folks, here's another person who thinks the Perpetual War has an end. He should try to learn the definition of the word Perpetual.
 
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