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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Well obviously not all of those in Pakistan or the Pakistani state otherwise the army would not have been fighting the Taliban. Like I say in order for Bin Laden to live in a mansion in a military town he would need the support of some elements of the military/ISI, and its clear from wikileaks etc. that some elements of the ISI are arming the Taliban. However its unclear whether this is being mandatated by the elected government or whether this is a case of certain factions doing whatever they please. Possibly its a case of the Taliban/Al Qaeda infiltrating the ISI or possibly its a case of the military giving some support the Taliban and Al Qaeda in order to justify intrusive role in Pakistani politics, who knows? Its intresting you brought this up as it reminds me alot of the Ergenekon case in Turkey.
    Interesting. Have you read recently about those who had joined up to supposedly fight against the Taliban/AQ in Afganistant but have turned against the US/NATO/Afgan forces in sleeper agent attacks?
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    By a few accounts I've read, this action was based on intelligent that has been shaping up since 2006. I think both Bush and Obama deserve an "atta boy" on this one. It would not have been wise for either of them to provide a weekly update of intelligence, or of the progress on tracking Osama. That's like telling the your mom you're throwing her a surprise party next Tuesday. We knew nothing of Obama's actions since 2009 when he took office in regards to Osama. We knew nothing or little of Bush's actions, either.

    To say "Bush failed, hahahahahahaha, Obama's a strategist GOD" is a bit....unrealistic. Osama has a very small circle. He uses that circle to do all of his communicating. He keeps few people "in the know" about himself. He disavows modern technology. It isn't like tracing my IP address and knowing I'm in Carrollton, TX right now. You have to rely on word of mouth from people we can't really trust. I get why it took so long to get him...I wish it hadn't..but I get it.
    The thing is that Bush openly declared that he didn't care where bin Laden was, that he wasn't that concerned, that he wasn't really looking for him. Intel from 2006? Why wasn't our attention focused on that intel at the time? Why did the intel take that long to come in? If Bush had been diligent on tracking down bin Laden he probably would have been dead before Obama ever took office. But instead, Bush just didn't care about bin Laden. I've no doubt the intel was coming in while Bush was still President. But Bush wasn't worried about it. He had "bigger" problems, like invading countries that posed not danger to us, and granting amnesty to millions of criminals illegally invading our borders.
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Good riddance, the World is a better place with OBL gone.

    Of course the extremists will make a martyr out of him. Wise move to bury his body at sea in an undisclosed area. This
    way the burial site won't be made into a sacred place.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    go to iTune radio, tune to 770Wabc, 880cbs, 1010wins, 660 the fan, 710wor, and listen for yourself. Many family members are calling in and stating what I feel.


    no they are not unique, Neither is my aunts or my friends who I have been in contact with.


    elation, and rejoicing, are far to strong. I am happy that mothervucker is dead, but closure? "rejoicing" "elation"? hardley, these folks are still dead.... America, **** yeah!


    But lets put it in perspective.
    Which is exactly what psychologists say generally about the death penalty. It doesn't bring closure. It does bring, however, in many...the feelings that you and your family are experiencing. I'm not in favor of the death penalty...and my preference would have been for Bin Laden to be brought to justice and to rot away in a cell for the rest of his life...but different people feel differently.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by gekaap View Post
    The thing is that Bush openly declared that he didn't care where bin Laden was, that he wasn't that concerned, that he wasn't really looking for him. Intel from 2006? Why wasn't our attention focused on that intel at the time? Why did the intel take that long to come in? If Bush had been diligent on tracking down bin Laden he probably would have been dead before Obama ever took office. But instead, Bush just didn't care about bin Laden. I've no doubt the intel was coming in while Bush was still President. But Bush wasn't worried about it. He had "bigger" problems, like invading countries that posed not danger to us, and granting amnesty to millions of criminals illegally invading our borders.
    Or perhaps he was simply trying to keep the hunt low-key. If Bin Laden meant anything to the movement (and I'm sure he did), I can't imagine it making our hunt any easier by emphasizing how fixated we are on it every single time the question is asked.

    I already said I feel like this should have happened sooner...but even Obama (who has, in all honesty, made some pretty childish remarks about the other side, specifically Bush) has creditted Bush (and apparently even Clinton, though I'm going off anecdotal evidence on that one) with what he did to facilitate this kill.

    I lean pretty far right on everything except equal rights, but I'm absolutely tired of this idea that a leader can't be good if they aren't from my side. I abhor much of Obama's policy; it isn't in line with what I think is best for the country...but he has done some good. Bush had flubs, made mistakes, mixed his messages sometimes...but the search for Osama was going on under the RADAR long before Obama's team took over. Without intelligence gathered during Bush's era we wouldn't have captured Osama, per articles on multiple websites (citing that intelligence from the Bush era spurred new investigations).

    Obama gets credit for the kill, Bush should get credit for facilitating the process that got us to this point.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  6. #396
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Which is exactly what psychologists say generally about the death penalty. It doesn't bring closure. It does bring, however, in many...the feelings that you and your family are experiencing. I'm not in favor of the death penalty...and my preference would have been for Bin Laden to be brought to justice and to rot away in a cell for the rest of his life...but different people feel differently.


    As I said before, this was vengence, and I am more than ok with that. So is the Death penalty.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Which is exactly what psychologists say generally about the death penalty. It doesn't bring closure. It does bring, however, in many...the feelings that you and your family are experiencing. I'm not in favor of the death penalty...and my preference would have been for Bin Laden to be brought to justice and to rot away in a cell for the rest of his life...but different people feel differently.
    I personally am of the opinion that he would've been ever more glorified and viewed as a martyr if he had been capture alive and processed through our legal system...just look at the fact that we don't even know how to deal with guys like KSM yet.

    DD - it is not the purpose of the death penalty to bring closure to anyone, it is to administer justice. I'm pro-capital punishment, but I realize that there are good reasons to be against it. But the emotional argument is not a good one.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 05-02-11 at 01:10 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I personally am of the opinion that he would've been ever more glorified and viewed as a martyr if he had been capture alive and processed through our legal system...just look at the fact that we don't even know how to deal with guys like KSM yet.
    Perhaps then they would have been saying, "Oh, weak-willed Americans. Too scared to kill a man as close to God as Osama!" It wouldn't matter what we did here, they would have found a way to make Osama a martyr.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Or perhaps he was simply trying to keep the hunt low-key. If Bin Laden meant anything to the movement (and I'm sure he did), I can't imagine it making our hunt any easier by emphasizing how fixated we are on it every single time the question is asked.
    That's nothing more than an ad hoc hypothesis. Oh, I know, maybe Bush was using top secret government mind wave devices to try to find bin Laden. That theory holds as much weight as yours.

    I already said I feel like this should have happened sooner...but even Obama (who has, in all honesty, made some pretty childish remarks about the other side, specifically Bush) has creditted Bush (and apparently even Clinton, though I'm going off anecdotal evidence on that one) with what he did to facilitate this kill.
    Have you ever watched an inaugural address?

    I lean pretty far right on everything except equal rights, but I'm absolutely tired of this idea that a leader can't be good if they aren't from my side. I abhor much of Obama's policy; it isn't in line with what I think is best for the country...but he has done some good. Bush had flubs, made mistakes, mixed his messages sometimes...but the search for Osama was going on under the RADAR long before Obama's team took over. Without intelligence gathered during Bush's era we wouldn't have captured Osama, per articles on multiple websites (citing that intelligence from the Bush era spurred new investigations).
    FTR, I am not an Obama supporter either. I've been praying for a good candidate to come out of the GOP to defeat him in 2012. I, too, believe in giving credit where it is due. I just don't see it due to Bush.
    Birthers: God's way of telling Darwin "Take that!"

    We're dealing with master Satanists here. The fact that there's no evidence proves that it's true.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Desert Fox was Iraq, 1998 buddy. I'm talkin Khost province, 1999.

    Edit: I admit that if you want to take someone like bin Laden out, cruise missiles probably aren't the best solution because time is too big a factor to ignore. But my point is Clinton DID try to take out OBL, even being described by Robert Oakley as being "obsessed" with Osama.
    I intended to say Desert Fox and the Afghan Airstrike....my bad, same applies though. Clinton was given many oprtunities and refused them...at the last minute, and for questionable reasons he lobbed in some missiles...innefectively.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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