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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

  1. #301
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    Obama didn't invade Iraq or Afghanistan. And what we spend on our military pales in comparison to what we spend on entitlements and pork. The more you know!
    Point made. 20% of the federal budget spent on military...43% on SS, Medicaid, and Medicare.
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    By a few accounts I've read, this action was based on intelligent that has been shaping up since 2006. I think both Bush and Obama deserve an "atta boy" on this one. It would not have been wise for either of them to provide a weekly update of intelligence, or of the progress on tracking Osama. That's like telling the your mom you're throwing her a surprise party next Tuesday. We knew nothing of Obama's actions since 2009 when he took office in regarding to Osama. We knew nothing or little of Bush's actions, either.

    To say "Bush failed, hahahahahahaha, Obama's a strategist GOD" is a bit....unrealistic. Osama has a very small circle. He uses that circle to do all of his communicating. He keeps few people "in the know" about himself. He disavows modern technology. It isn't like tracing my IP address and knowing I'm in Carrollton, TX right now. You have to rely on word of mouth from people we can't really trust. I get why it took so long to get him...I wish it hadn't..but I get it.
    I think the intelligence community deserves a huge pat on the back for this one, and hell, for even being able to work together and get multiple agencies (NSA, CIA) on the same page. My understanding is that since, as you said, OBL disavowed modern technology he relied on a system of couriers. It was a matter of tracking the movements of which ones he used the most and then confirming if OBL was actually at the target site. I'm sure the work involved was hard and painstacking, but they did some good old detective work here.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    So... what dos the ****ers death do to the situation in Afghanistan? Do things become more stable over time now? Less? DOes someone else take the ****ers place and ramp up the violence? Does Al Queda wither and die?

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Rev, it is common for those affected by a crime to want closure. Family of the dead do not go to the killer's death sentence for kicks... they want to see justice done. It is what it is. I can bet you that those affected by 9/11 are rejoicing today.

    MG,

    I am "those affected by 9/11". If you watch the media parasites interviewing people in nyc today who like me suffered loss. You'll find any rejoicing shallow compared to the loss we suffered.

    7 out of 15 guys were nypd or fdny on my chelsea piers hockey team, gone.

    My uncle, gone, his two kids my cousins no father.

    Yes bin laden dead is a good thing, but "closure"? Hardley.


    And those calling it "justice"? I disagree "vengence" is more appropriate, and i am fine with that.
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 05-02-11 at 11:15 AM.
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Can we verify the claims of those who have been here longer any better? People make all sorts of claims about themselves here, and pulling this "Noob" business in order to invalidate one claim vs. any other has no merit.
    Not necessarily, but those who have been here a while have demonstrated whether they do or do not understand the subject they post about. Have we not, in debating over a period, built up a picture of our strengths and weaknesses, knowledge and understanding in the minds of other posters, for good or ill. That was more my point, that you have to earn respect here, not demand it from your first post.
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  6. #306
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    For the record, having finally made it through all 30 pages...I'd like to see some proof myself. With the news pouring in last night there were a lot of conflicting accounts of what happened and I'm still seeing them this morning. If it happened Saturday I'm wondering how we were able to get DNA results processed so quickly. Is it normal for it to take 24 hours or less? Also, unceremoniously dumping this guy at sea...not sure on that one. Is that SOP for a situation like this? Are they going to release pictures?? I haven't seen much of a reaction from AQ or the Taliban yet, either. Were there any survivors at the compound/mansion that we're holding? I didn't see anything mentioning captives.

    (Please note: I've only read a couple of articles..if these questions have been answered I apologize, I haven't had the opportunity to pour over all the reports yet.)
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    So... what dos the ****ers death do to the situation in Afghanistan?
    Not much.

    Do things become more stable over time now? Less?
    imho stability in Afghanistan is wholly reliant and many other factors, not OBL's death.

    Does someone else take the ****ers place and ramp up the violence?
    I don't think anyone within the organization can fill OBL's shoes, but someone will definitely try to replace him. Maybe they'll TRY to ramp up violence, but I'm not sure if they'll be successful.

    Does Al Queda wither and die?
    The AQ top echelon has becoming weaker and weaker since 9/11 to the point of becoming almost irrelevant within the past few years. That being said, regional organizations like AQAP are still pretty capable.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  8. #308
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh_Akston View Post
    Picture of bin Laden after being shot (WARNING - GRAPHIC IMAGE) - Bin Laden Has Been Dead for Two Weeks Why Are we learning about it Now? | Gold Coast Chronicle

    The story says he was killed 2 weeks ago and Obama said it happened today. Seems as though there are conflicting stories out there. I guess we'll get to the truth of the matter sooner or later.
    The photo with that story has been debunked as a hoax and has been on the interwebz for a couple of years now, iirc.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    For the record, having finally made it through all 30 pages...I'd like to see some proof myself. With the news pouring in last night there were a lot of conflicting accounts of what happened and I'm still seeing them this morning. If it happened Saturday I'm wondering how we were able to get DNA results processed so quickly. Is it normal for it to take 24 hours or less? Also, unceremoniously dumping this guy at sea...not sure on that one. Is that SOP for a situation like this? Are they going to release pictures?? I haven't seen much of a reaction from AQ or the Taliban yet, either. Were there any survivors at the compound/mansion that we're holding? I didn't see anything mentioning captives.

    (Please note: I've only read a couple of articles..if these questions have been answered I apologize, I haven't had the opportunity to pour over all the reports yet.)
    It happened a few weeks ago. Obama only made the announcement just yesterday.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #310
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What this does show are a few things from the United States:
    1. Tenacity - once the American's get on your trail, they don't let off, even after 10 years
    2. Consistancy - Whether it's a Democrat or Republican, or Independent - they'll still sign orders to kill terrorists when we find them.
    3. Ability - We can enter a country of 180 Million covertly, strike a terrorist target successfully within 35 miles of their capital and get out with utter secrecy.

    All the little Osama fans are having a bad day. It's natural they'll strike out and be mad.
    I agree with you. However, I don't think Laila is in any way an Osama fan. I can see where she is coming from based on a lot of the stereotypes that people in the East have about the US. However, those stereotypes certainly aren't justified, nor are they true.

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