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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

  1. #1401
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yet, you can't link the report.
    This is mental retardation. No... waterboarding will not save lives. Of course it would never have been a critical link in getting Osama. That could never be.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It was you, in post 1350, which I was quoting.

    You weren't quoting me, I wasn't the one that said those words. I thought you were refuting what McCain said, why I asked for a link - because the link/article I provided, McCain clearly refutes what you and the rest of the "credit hungry" Rep/cons are saying.

    You don't have to be a CIA official to know and understand the ramifications of water boarding. You claimed that one of my sources was not a CIA official, then you post an article written by a speech writer for Bush.

    Why are you claiming that Bush's speech writer doesn't have to be a CIA official to know so much about water boarding, but any source provided saying the opposite must be a CIA official to be credible. Double Standards?



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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    LOL!

    wapo's ARTICLE is based on and QUOTES the ig report

    y'know, the one PUBLISHED by ERIC HOLDER

    the one that says in detroit's own english, "waterboarding elicited a lot of information"
    Ha,ha, of course water boarding elicits a lot of information. But how much of that information did Eric Holder say was true and of any real value? People like McCain have claimed that someone being water boarded will say whatever he thinks the ones doing the water boarding want to hear. Most of it being just plain lies.

    You are assuming a lot more from what was said, stretching it to make your point.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Mohammed cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent, only when his spirit was broken in the month after his capture March 1, 2003, as the inspector general's report and other documents released this week indicate.
    link above

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    This is mental retardation. No... waterboarding will not save lives. Of course it would never have been a critical link in getting Osama. That could never be.

    .
    Apparently he had been living down the street from a military complex in pakistan, and ze americans weren't cool enough to get in on the info, for a decade.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    This is mental retardation. No... waterboarding will not save lives. Of course it would never have been a critical link in getting Osama. That could never be.

    .
    Fact is, it wasn't. We got the intel long after the waterboarding stopped. Can't change the facts to suit you. But on the larger question, we ahve clear evidence of us getting the misinofrmation and using it, the criticism of torture, but no real examples of where we got good intel. There is only the claim that we did.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We got the intel long after the waterboarding stopped.
    yup, during the time ksm was conducting what the ig report released by holder called "terrorist tutorials"

    of course, by then ksm wasn't the only one who was "cooperating, and to an extraordinary extent"

    good point

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Ha,ha, of course water boarding elicits a lot of information. But how much of that information did Eric Holder say was true and of any real value? People like McCain have claimed that someone being water boarded will say whatever he thinks the ones doing the water boarding want to hear. Most of it being just plain lies.

    You are assuming a lot more from what was said, stretching it to make your point.
    You need to read this interview.

    O'REILLY: OK. So you saw what Mr. Bush saw. What is the headline?

    THIESSEN: Well, the headline is CIA interrogations work. I mean, the fact is in the period after 9/11, we knew absolutely nothing about the enemy who attacked us. We did not know that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the mastermind of 9/11. We didn't know who his key operatives were. We didn't know what they had planned. And then we started capturing these terrorists. We captured Abu Zubaydah, who was a key Al Qaeda facilitator, and he gave us information that led us to Ramzi bin al-Shibh, who was one of key KSM's key operatives. And they together led us to KSM. And KSM was resistant when he came into the -- when he was captured by the CIA. When they asked him about new plots, he said soon you will know. And he said I will tell you everything when I -- when I get to New York and see my lawyer. And he didn't see a lawyer. He was put under enhanced interrogation techniques and he went -- once he went through those, he made a decision to cooperate. And when he was done, he was running a graduate level class on Al Qaeda operations for the CIA. The former director…

    O'REILLY: And you believe that he was broken because of waterboarding. He was waterboarded many times.

    THIESSEN: Absolutely.


    O'REILLY: OK, now…

    THIESSEN: There is no -- there is no question.

    O'REILLY: Let's zero in on the courier who was the key to finding bin Laden. I understand that the -- that KSM and another guy who is subjected to enhanced interrogation mentioned…

    THIESSEN: Abu Faraj al-Libi.

    O'REILLY: OK, mentioned the courier, pick it up.

    THIESSEN: Well, I mean, they -- we had very little information about Al Qaeda's courier networks. What happened was first -- Abu Zubaydah and Ramzi bin al-Shibh, who were the first guys brought into the program, gave us some general information about couriers and some code names for those folks. When KSM was interrogated after he underwent waterboarding; not during it, afterwards. When he was going -- when he was being questioned, he acknowledged that he -- they had given us the name of this fellow al-Kuwaiti which was a nom de guerre and KSM admitted that he knew him. Then in 2004, we captured a fellow named Hassan Ghul who was a senior Al Qaeda operative. He was captured in Iraq, and he told us that this courier al-Kuwaiti was a key lieutenant of KSM's successor Abu Faraj al-Libi…

    O'REILLY: Now, did he do that under duress -- let me just -- did he do that under duress or did he just tell us?

    THIESSEN: Well, this is the thing that people don't understand. You're hearing a lot of the left is trying -- the deniers of this program are trying to say, well did they use -- did they tell us this under waterboarding or under standard interrogation later and that misunderstands how interrogation works. Enhanced interrogation was never used to get intelligence; it was used to get cooperation. So you took a detainee like KSM, who is in the state of total resistance, and you used the enhanced interrogation techniques to bring him to a state of cooperation. And when he's under enhanced interrogation techniques, they are asking him questions they already know the answers to in order to gauge whether he had stopped lying and made the decision to cooperate. And then, once he starts cooperating, the technique stops. In most cases with enhanced interrogation, the detainees went under them for a couple of days. And KSM -- he was a really tough, tough guy. He was -- he went for about a month. But once that month ended, the interrogation, the enhanced interrogations stopped and we had a -- they had a conversation with him like you and I are speaking today.

    O'REILLY: All right. So you are convinced then that the information provided by KSM and then the other guy Ghoul who was captured a couple of years later…

    THIESSEN: Yes.

    How Waterboarding Breaks You: An O'Reilly Factor Exposé - Waterboarding - Fox Nation
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Bin Laden died ten years ago. The Feds use him again for another big plot, to justify a false flag 'dirty bomb attack" for the last oil looting war - Iran war.


    They say they dropped Bin Laden's body into sea - because there was no body at all.

    They can't show you a film. - there was a 25 minutes black-out. But there are eighty commandoes, how could all cameras on these commandoes' helmet de-functioned at the same time?

    They show you a picture of “situation room” that all Obama’s administration members were present. Did they see everything or they just saw something else? It seems none of these elites could describe the event clearly and correctly that we heard the government changed their story again and again in the news.

  10. #1410
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You need to read this interview.



    j-mac
    I've made this remark before - Marc Thiessen - Bush's speech writer is supposed to be more knowledgeable than CIA officials?

    Both he and Mohammed withheld or fabricated information, even after the agency's toughest interrogations. That gave credence to what many longtime interrogators have maintained, that increasingly harsh questioning produces information but not necessarily reliable information.
    Renewed debate over CIA tactics, both sides claim they're vindicated by bin Laden's death - 5/7/2011 12:37:36 PM | Newser



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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