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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

  1. #1181
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I'm gonna sway towards Boo's dark side for a sec...but just for a sec

    Do you think national revenge, support of torture and indescriminate killing are American values?
    Yes actually, now I do.

  2. #1182
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    Re: Am I the only one reading this report?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    as well as eit's---the preeminent source was "transformed," "reversed," in the extremely rough month after his capture, according to the report holder made public on the monday before aug 29
    says wapo, leastaways
    I am looking through the report again, and so far I would have to say that this ^ assessment was made by the journalist who wrote the piece.
    In the report it merely notes in more than one place that the quantity of reporting went up but that they hadn't had the time to check and see if the quality went up as well.
    Notably, the WaPo article includes this quote from KSM to the Red Cross,
    "During the harshest period of my interrogation I gave a lot of false information in order to satisfy what I believed the interrogators wished to hear in order to make the ill-treatment stop. ... I'm sure that the false information I was forced to invent in order to make the ill-treatment stop wasted a lot of their time."
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Am I the only one reading this report?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I am looking through the report again, and so far I would have to say that this ^ assessment was made by the journalist who wrote the piece.
    In the report it merely notes in more than one place that the quantity of reporting went up but that they hadn't had the time to check and see if the quality went up as well.
    Notably, the WaPo article includes this quote from KSM to the Red Cross,
    "During the harshest period of my interrogation I gave a lot of false information in order to satisfy what I believed the interrogators wished to hear in order to make the ill-treatment stop. ... I'm sure that the false information I was forced to invent in order to make the ill-treatment stop wasted a lot of their time."
    That's quite true, as was stated by those who were doing the interrogating, and which is why he was waterboarded until he began telling the truth.

    It was the threat of further water boarding that got him to cooperate and once he began cooperating and telling the truth things went very smoothly. No more waterboarding was necessary. He is now in good shape and the waterboarding had no long terms effects on his physical or, as far as we know. mental health.,

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    Re: Am I the only one reading this report?

    "terrorist tutorials" were the on-the-record remarks of agents who were there whom wapo will keep anonymous

    that ksm scolded listeners for inattentiveness, that he asked for chalkboards, likewise comes from those agents

    "transformation" and "reversal" are the words of wapo's reporter, based on his reading of the ig report

    it is the reporter as well who described ksm pre eit as "an avowed and truculent enemy of the us"

    "preeminent source" are the ig's words

    that ksm was thoroughly uncooperative prior to "waterboarding" is also according to ig

    "the evidence is clear---ksm cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent only when his spirit was broken in the month after his capture:" wapo's reading of the report

    that ksm gave up a network of 70 names comes per ig

    "waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the 2 most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information:" ig

    you're quibbling

  5. #1185
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    Re: Am I the only one reading this report?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It was the threat of further water boarding that got him to cooperate and once he began cooperating and telling the truth things went very smoothly.
    I see you saying that. But it's not in the report.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Am I the only one reading this report?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    "waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the 2 most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information:" ig
    Finish the quote why don't you?

    "Certain of the techniques seemed to have little effect, whereas waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information," he said in an interview. "But we didn't have the time or resources to do a careful, systematic analysis of the use of particular techniques with particular individuals and independently confirm the quality of the information that came out."

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    you're quibbling
    Perhaps. But it seems to me that getting someone to start spouting what they think you want to hear is different and less desirable than getting useful information.
    But, if you see the distinction between a detainee spouting what they think the interrogators want to hear and actual useful information as mere quibbling, I guess that's your business. It certainly explains some things.
    Last edited by Simon W. Moon; 05-08-11 at 12:36 PM.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Am I the only one reading this report?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I see you saying that. But it's not in the report.
    So that means it didn't happen, despite those who had inside information?

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    Re: Am I the only one reading this report?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So that means it didn't happen, despite those who had inside information?
    All I am saying is that what you said, "It was the threat of further water boarding that got him to cooperate and once he began cooperating and telling the truth things went very smoothly," isn't in the report.
    You responded to me noticing that what you said wasn't in the IG report with a cryptic comment about inside info. You're response is somewhat confusing unless you're the one with the inside info. The expected response was that you would show us where you got your info.
    Are you saying that you're one of those with inside information?

    Fwiw, in the report, it mentions that they didn't check and verify everything he was saying to see if it was true. Since they didn't verify that, I am not sure how they could've known when he started cooperating and telling the truth.
    It also points out instances where they were unable to determine whether a detainee was still holding out or not. This uncertainty is listed in more than one place.

    Given these, and a couple of other related comments similar to them, that are in the report, I am curious as to how you came by the info that, "the threat of further water boarding that got him to cooperate and once he began cooperating and telling the truth things went very smoothly." Share if you like.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Am I the only one reading this report?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    "But we didn't have the time or resources to do a careful, systematic analysis of the use of particular techniques with particular individuals and independently confirm the quality of the information that came out."
    but you and i already discussed this, remember?

    "waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the 2 most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information:" pretty much speaks for itself

    Perhaps.
    no perhaps

    "preeminent source" means preeminent source

    grow up

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    Re: Am I the only one reading this report?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    All I am saying is that what you said, "It was the threat of further water boarding that got him to cooperate and once he began cooperating and telling the truth things went very smoothly," isn't in the report.
    You responded to me noticing that what you said wasn't in the IG report with a cryptic comment about inside info. You're response is somewhat confusing unless you're the one with the inside info. The expected response was that you would show us where you got your info.
    Are you saying that you're one of those with inside information?

    Fwiw, in the report, it mentions that they didn't check and verify everything he was saying to see if it was true. Since they didn't verify that, I am not sure how they could've known when he started cooperating and telling the truth.
    It also points out instances where they were unable to determine whether a detainee was still holding out or not. This uncertainty is listed in more than one place.

    Given these, and a couple of other related comments similar to them, that are in the report, I am curious as to how you came by the info that, "the threat of further water boarding that got him to cooperate and once he began cooperating and telling the truth things went very smoothly." Share if you like.
    Marc Thiessen Tells How Enhanced Interrogation Helped Find Bin Laden

    CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles | CNSnews.com

    ThinkProgress Rep. Peter King: We Should Still Use Waterboarding Because That’s How We Captured Bin Laden

    Rumsfeld: Waterboarding "Produced An Enormous Amount" Of Information

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